I'll try to add pictures a video later. This was a very emotional meeting. Now the committee is working on SB 284 - Campaign Expenditure Disclosure. Chair Ramras has said the committee will carry over to tomorrow Saturday at 10am so it can be voted on.
SB: 43 State Song Second Verse Discussion
Ramras: Talking about the people in the room including the state archivist to ensure that the words as originally authored and copyrighted,
to insure we are being respectful culturally and to the author. Floor is yours Sen. Menard as long as you can stay.
Sen. Menard: I proudly bring this second verse to you today. This passed a few years back from the house with a strong vote, but stumbled in the Senate. This year the opposite. We'll go ahead and see how this plays out. I've spent hours trying to explain.
[She goes on] The intent is to recognize Alaska Natives and the Native lad who designed the flag. Some have said it changes history, I say it adds to it and compliments. We've added other parts of history. There are others who want to speak to the bill and hope we have enough votes to pass it out of committee.
Gatto: The sponsor was referencing me with the honor and remember flag. It does not add to the American flag or any other flag by adding on to it. But the verse is adding on to something. There is a difference from adding a flag and adding it to others from adding more stars or stripes to the flag. There is no corrolary between adding a flag and changing it. I want to hear from the public first.
Herron: Why did you introduce this personally?
Menard: I was asked to do this. I feel strongly. I have a minor in music, it is a tribute to Native people I feel was left out. I had conversations with Fran Ulmer over it, and I thought I could be the vehicle. I didn't need my name on the bill. When I believe in something and feel I continue to press on, which this has turned out to be. I'm not backing down because I feel it's a good bill. People would like the ability to sing both verses without copyright problems.
Herron: I don't believe you are worried about pride of authorship. Was there a contest for the flag?
Menard: Yes there was. I'll turn this over to staff Michael Rovito.
Rovito: There was a contest to designe the flag and Benson won.
Herron: Was there a contest for the first verse of the song?
Rovito: I can't answer that, but others are here who can.
Ramras: Go off line with archivsit, and some others, here in the room, I only have one person listed, if others wish to testify, please sign up. Letter in your packet April 7 from University of Alaska, in order to protect the copyrights no alteration made in the text and that on copies, there be copyright information on the text. If you turn to page 2, this is the way the authors wrote it, this is the verse we have, typos and capitalization problems included. [Native is spelled with a small "n" in both places in the bill.]
David, would you speak to the authenticity of the song as we have it.
Mr. David Woodley: UA foundation holds the copyright of second version 1986 from the US copyright office, which appears identical in text to the bill at issue today. Over the years it has become clear a number of changes have been made, some of which were not objectionable, - capitalization, commas, etc. not objectionable, but others more significant. Our attorneys say that these probably do not jeopardize the copyright. But we feel that we should maintain it as close to the original as possible.
Ramras: There are 40 very interested people in the room and we appreciate your commentary. Would you tell us your position and for how long as archivist.
David Woodly: Exec. Director of Advancement SErvices, includes all forms of records available to the foundation. Employee of foundation for 4 years and UA 10 years before that. Before that Mr. Scott Taylor and he has been an employee for ages, but was not available for this session today, or I would have relied on him. He has reconstructed a whole history of UA and state song relationship.
Gatto: By chance, not by design, I found myself in company of a patent attorney. But in the discussion we discussed how to violate a patent. it came down to not a comma, not a period, not a space, could you simply change when it was already patented. I'm curious when you say this is not the identical to the original. Is using this a patent violation since it has changes.
Woodley: Not an attorney. But over the years we've seen little alterations here and there, we don't go after them to say you violated. We are concerned with preserving the work as a whole. IN the event used for farcical or comedic, takes the words and tryies to provoke something not intended by the author have we taken action. The owner , Davis, gave us the second verse, and we feel it is our obligations.
Ramras: Want to make it clear - Gatto just went out - that what we have is now the exact version that is copyrighted. Fairbanks reported chastised over changes. We have tracked down the original version. Thank you for your assistance in authenticating this song.
Darren Friday from Kake: I want to testify in support. You may have heard the 2nd verse doesn't flow along or isn't singable, so with the chair's ... [Everyone was invited to join Darren in signing the song - both verses.]
Carol Davis - the daughter of the author of the words of the second verse. My mom and Marie came to Alaska about the same time. My father was on the final committee to choose the flag. Marie wrote the first verse with school children in mind so they could read and understand it. Marie would approve this song. It is in context of the time when the flag was adopted and first verse was written. The flag was chosen by the Alaska branch of the American Legion. Marie Drake was his secretary. They monitored the flag contest. Aug. 1 was the deadline and the commitee voted on it that month and the legislature adopted in in May.
ZZZ: I think a contest in this time may be in conflict.
Connie ??: Sourdough since 1971. When first discussed in early 70s, we had talked about a second verse - I wouldn't sing it unless all of us were included - newcomers - they said we should have a contest. They got back in two weeks and said after discussing it with Native colleagues, they didn't want to seem to be objecting to Sourdoughs and maybe in the future someone would write a second verse. I spoke to Marie Davis. So when she finally wroted at age 95. She decided to do it. There was not contest for the first verse. She was the secretary and happened to be a poet. We should accept this give. It honors all of us. We have come here with the help of Alaska Natives.
Ramras: Thank you. Anyone else who would like to testify.
Lorraine Houseman on line: I live in Anchorage, raised in Kodiak. Calling today in regards to proposal to add verse to flag song. There's been a lot of representation of everyone and I was really trouble with this and testified before, not only me, but a lot of Alaskans who aren't getting to testify. I do know it was presented by Fran Ulmer in 1987 and she checked with a lot of people and let them know what was proposed. She received a lot of "no don't change it" particularly pioneers of Alaska that they didn't want to add anything to our beautiful song. In the original song it talks about Alaskans dear. I believe that talks to everyone - not just those who came for the gold. It also talks about the flag and the intent of Benny Benson. The big dipper and excited about the contest and excited about Alaska becoming a state. I wanted to have something from Benny Benson's own words. ... Doing researh I found some things I'd like to read to show how important it is to people who don't want to change it. Not racist thing. Goes deep into our history. Alaska all of us.
Benny Benson born in Chignik in 1913 and just before he turned 3 his mom died of pneumonia. Father fisherman, couldn't support three children, with heavy hard took him to orphanage in Unalaska. Father from Sweden, come as young man, fisherman. Mom, Russian Aleut. Went to Jesse lee orphanage and embraced by loving people he admired. Words from him, recorded on tape by a neighbor of mine who put it in a book form. I would like to read, so much more to the history and acceptance of this beautiful song. He graduated from high school in Seward. 1932. Recording this in 1967 before he died in 1972. He was getting ready to leave to united with his father:
I had a hard time, holding back tears as I was leading my brother Charlie... and to meet my step mother for the first time. 16 years with Jesse Lee home were among my happiest. They taught me to love God and my neighbors, respect my elders and care for others.
He was a very humble person ... I can't keep track of what she is saying and what he is saying.
Whenever I hear the Alaska Flag song, I get a tingle down my spine as memories of JL home come to mind. 1955 when I met Marie Drake in Seattle and we were photographed together and I carried that photo with me for many years.
1967 came to Alaska Native Hospital, had leg surgery for circulation problems. Didn't know if he would leave hospital with leg and foot. Doctors helped him. Trying to help everyone else in the hospital. Interview with Anchorage Daily Times, a portion.
He had gone to a class thinking he'd take up art because he won the contest. But didn't do well at art. He said, he tried art on for size, but it wasn't for me. He works well with his hands and designs small craft.....He thinks the flag song sits next to the national anthem. I think if it is good enough for him. He was so proud of that song. You can't add any more that would honor him. ONe other thing. Member of Koniac Native Association....
Ramras: Lorraine.
Lorraine: He was part of the American Legion. I'm opposed to adding to the song.
Ramras: Your comments are important, and this primer of Benny Benson is good for all of us as we approach the end of the session. Dermot Cole wrote in Fairbanks. The blue field...Can't keep up. I'll link the article later] Davis added her own interpretation which is different... Just trying to read into the record both sides as they sit. Back to testimony in the room. Rep. Gatto back.
Mayor of ??? Borough: Exited bout the diversity of Alaska. I want to take the time to celebrate the rich culture we have. Tlingit, Haida, Aleut, etc. The amazing cultures we have and power of the people. I leave you to your decision and support the original author of the song.
Ramras: What a lovely hearing we're having today. I would invite anyone to stay after this for campaign disclosure.
Sherril George, from Angoon, in Juneau for 30 years. Born 1922, makes me 87 years old. I came in support of this bill. Hunting, on top of mountains with my dad. When I look at the words to this song, I get a feeling, I get a feeling they run pretty deep with the people that wrote them. Trying to tell others why they fell in love with this land. I was taught, take cood care of the land it will always feed you. I'd fill a treap and my dad would watch and say to fill it in with moss. You learn to love the land. As I look at these words, the people telling us about the beauty, the moonlight, the stars, love for our land, it kind of throws me when they reject it. I'm told being rejected because native. In growing up I was, I spent all my years in Sheldon Jackson, in grade school, and there reading about great atheletes I admired so much. He's a native of Ohio. He's not an Indian. Kind of confuses me. IN my old age when I'm told that somethings ...we've come a long way, I've seen a lot of changes in Juneau. We used to come to Juneau. I'd ask my dad, how come those signs "Whites ONly" in the restaurants. INt he village you don't feel that. So I asked my dad. Had a time to explain. My dad made friends with people, so I just wanted to say that I'm in favor. I think these are beautiful words. I'm always in awe of people that write a song n put words to it. Love songs, whether for antoher woman and here I know a lot of friends who have come to Alaska, not meaning to live here, but they fell in love with our land. We should keep working in that directions. To make this the best in the union.
Ramras: Mr. George. Are you a Tlingit?
Whispers in his ear: You are 100% Tlingit.
Ramras: My seat mate in House, is Bill Thomas, he gave me a name, it means bed house because I'm in the hotel industry.
Gatto: I really enjoyed listening to you. You remind me of someone I want to spend a few hours with my ears just hearing some of your stories.
Ramras: But not now...
Thank you very much Mr. George.
I am 100% Tlingit, ever since the land claims came about... I have a card that says ... My mother comes from Auk Bay. There was a huge native settlement there. We were called. ??
... We have a matrilineal society. Things are inherited through the mother. However, my father comes from Sitka. Whenever I introduce myself I honor my father. It is out of respect created by my parents. My mother adored Carol Beery Davis. When my mother was leaving, she gave her a huge hand crocheted ... As a little girl he looked like a giant. Both were giants in their respect for Ntive culture. Not only recognizing, but also giving herself????
Ramras: Thank you very much.
Name in Tlingit I think. Speaking in Tlingit. Any questions? Laughter
Thank you for the opportunity to say a little bit of hat - my name is Walter Samson - originally from ???, Alaska. Combat veteran. I thought it would be good for me to say a few words. Certainly Alaska is home to all of us. We've hard the testimony about our diverse culture. Something we all appreciate. Time when a community, whether HOONah, or Cordava, ... is given an opportunity to have a say on some of the issues that is discussed at the state level. I'm referring more to when the fed or state system decides to rename a mountain, that opportunity is not there. The amendment being discussed here I certainly support. If you look at the second verse. The first line talks about Ntives. We are all Native alaskans. The third line says cultures, not cultue. Fourth line says Natives, so we're all native Alaskans. it refers to all of us. We are all Alaskans.
So what the amended version ... refers to all of us. But it represents all of us. That's what I see. Thank you for the opportunity. I didn't plan to come, but I came down to peek.
Ramras. Thank you. We've been joined by Rep. Gardner.
Close public testimony. Thank all of you for recentring us. We get cught up in things. When I reflect on this, I'll remember this testimony. It left an indelible impression on me. Bring discussion back to our committee.
Lynn: As military veteran I've lived all over the country. We have the best I recall of other states. I don't recall other states where people stand for their song. On par with the national anthem. PEOPLE give special respect here.
Gatto: I think Walter really hit on a solid point. The mountain was called Denali. Then some dude chnged it to McKinley. Now here's the question. If you indeed to get Denali back as the name. Would you think it credible to call it Denali-Mckinley. Or do you want to think it should just be Denali. Am I the only one here who treasures history? I think the Alaska song, Alaska bird, etc. The Alaska insect is the four spotted dragonfly. We shouldn't add another dragonfly. We want to retain the history or it is not history. I'm a no vote here. I'm for history. I want to do that for this state. I will stand pat. I like the song. I'm here to protect the first verse. IF you change the song, we no longer have the first verse. Anyone can sing the second verse, they can. this is a change to your history that I'm here to protect. You can call me an idiot if you want. But I'm here to protect the history.
Ramras: Public testimony has been closed. Let me explain. We can adopt a motion to move the bill. If someone objects. There is a roll call to advance either to the next committee or to the floor. The motion we did today, by doing a Judiciary substitute. We have the original language. As we conclude the discussion today. The chair will ask for a motion to move it from the committee. Yes or no votes to advance it to the floor of the state house. it doesn't have a fiscal note so it would go to the floor. Do our visitors, Reps Edgmon or Millett?
Edgmon: Thank you for the privilege to sit in on this meaningful meeting. I was born in Dillingham, a singer, in a native household, heartfelt testimony, of many Alaska Natives, this whole subject of adding a verse has risen above merely acting a second act. I want to be real careful to caution for people to characterize this as pro-Native or urban or rural,b ecause it shouldn't be. If we are in fact to amend the song, turning to the ABCP letter, we should do it in a way the whole Native community embraces. I've never heard the second verse sung. I would support, I'm Alaska native, know music, not comfortable with metering. It should transcend SE Alaska. If we do want to rewrite the second verse, with respect to Davis and you in the room, we should respect Alaska Natives, five of the state corporations were Alaska Native corps, we can argue Natives haven't gotten their due. I'm very proud of my heritage. I'm comfortable with the first verse, not oppoosed to second verse. Let's take it to a statewide level, maybe a contest. Whatever happens, I hope hard feelings should go away.
Millett: I'm also proud of my heritage. I grew up with my 1/2 inupiaq grandmother.. I've never seen such a discussion about an issue. It really touches a core with folks. Talking about the Alaska state flag. I've spoken to Alaskans across the state. Amazing to me here discussing a song that wasn't meant to be divisive. With some people who have strong sense of history. I thought, what would Benny Benson, what would the author think about changing the language of the song. I thought, the state has evolv, it hqw changed. I go back to what the Mayor has said. A lot of cultures have called Alaska home. While Alaska Natives have come a long way. There has been a lot of healing. I think the song is perfect. I don't think they aren't recognized and not acknowledged in the song we have. It has raised the dialogue to where it should be.
Ramras: I would encourage both of you to considr the Judiciary Commitee next session
Holmes: I share your comments, this is fascinating. Clearly a heartfelt issue on both sides. I've listened intently. Because of all the interesting views, I'd like to see it moved forward and discussed on the House floor by all.
Ramras: Other comments?
Gruenberg: As a relative newcome of 40 years in the state. I voted for this when it was first on the floor and will vote for it again. We need to come together as Alaskans. All the things tht bring us together can be framed so the split us apart. If we keep laughing and crying together and succeeding and failing together.
Ramras; Motion
Roll: Gatto no Holmes yes lYnn - yes Gruenberg yes Herron yes Ramras yes
5-1 passes committee.
Gatto:
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