When we got home there was a letter about a community meeting to let us know about the construction at Lake Otis and Tudor this summer.
So Thursday afternoon I went to St. Mary's Episcopal Church at LO and Tudor to see what was going on.
I talked to a traffic engineer about the conflict when pedestrians "walk" signs and cars turning right both had a green light at the same time. It seemed to me this was a design problem. First he said he didn't think that happened, but he would look. Then he got rather agitated and said a problem for traffic engineers was that people didn't do what they were supposed to do. He said there was a sign saying to give pedestrians the right of way. Well, yes, but when you are driving to an intersection and you have a green light, you might not happen to see such a sign any more than you might not see a pedestrian. Especially when there are two right turn lanes and the pedestrians
can be hidden by the car in the far right lane. He went back to saying that you can't account for human behavior. I did suggest again it was a design flaw to give two conflicting users a green light at the same time. Why not a red right turn arrow when the "Walk" sign is lit? Or a pedestrian overpass?This picture from the Project website doesn't show it, but the new design will have pedestrian islands which should help a little bit. Also, this turns out to be DOWL's site and Mr. Kim (below) isn't even mentioned.
Mr. Chong Kim, the project manager from the State was much better at listening and responding without complaining about human behavior. He seemed much more responsive and less defensive.
Here are the contact numbers if people have any questions or concerns.
I'm glad they're finally doing something about the worst intersection in Anchorage!
ReplyDeleteI walk a lot, though seldom at that intersection -- since I live in midtown. But even on streets with only one right turn lane, I've always really got to be sure drivers are aware I'm there before I cross. Much worse in winter than in summer, but a danger anytime. Many drivers don't seem to know the rules of the road even when signals or signage give pedestrians clear right of way.
Thanks for all your great coverage of Juneau during the session. And welcome back to Anchorage. And... have a great trip!
Steve, the problem with road design engineers is that they are solely concerned with cars, and not with people, not even the people driving the cars. Their entire goal is to move cars along the road or through the intersection.
ReplyDeleteIMHO, the best solution to any busy intersection is to install a roundabout properly sized for the the traffic load and speed. If there is a lot of straight through traffic and a roundabout with passover lanes is the best solution.
Pedestrians & bicyclists definitely have a tough time in Anchorage. Drivers tend to roll thru right turns on red or stop only after having entered the crosswalk ($200 fine & 2pts).
ReplyDeleteHowever, pedestrians need to obey walk/ don't walk signals and bicyclists need to dismount and walk across at pedestrian speed in order to be lawful and to be seen by drivers.
Hopefully the engineers will take the behaviors of all three users with their new design.
I hope they do not install a roundabout at any such large intersection! Roundabouts can work at lower traffic intersections but do not do a good job of keeping traffic moving when a main artery meets a feeder street, such as the infamous Dowling roundabout.
ReplyDeleteIn my line of work, I hear constantly from many drivers that they avoid Dowling, which increases the burden on alternate routes.
In 2007, APD reported that there were 75 collisions at Lake Otis & Tudor while there were 74 collisions ar the Dowling roundabouts. Considering that Dowling only sees about one half to one fourth the amount of traffic as Lake Otis & Tudor, this means that Dowling is anywhere from two to four times more dangerous than Lake Otis & Tudor.
Plain and simple people, if you are goig to venture outside of your house, KNOW THE LAW, I don't care if you are in a car, on a bike or smashing tread on your sneakers... KNOW THE LAW! There is no design flaw with the system, the flaw is with the drivers that are too lazy to learn the laws. KNOW THE LAW, that will tell you what all those signs mean and who has the right away, if it's my turn, stay out of my space or I will run your ass over and beat you up for inconveniencing my day. I don't pull out in front of the last car and I'm not afraid to wait my turn... I KNOW THE LAWS! Pedestrians don't ALWAYS have the right away and you're only a Bicyclist in certain situations, and I DON'T care that your on a bike... KNOW THE LAW! Got it, GOOD!
ReplyDeleteAnon June 15, sorry you were having such a bad day.
ReplyDeleteI would submit that when pedestrians and cars turning right both have permission to cross the same spot at the same time, that is a design flaw.
Yes, drivers should look for pedestrians, and wise pedestrians always check for right turning cars before crossing to be sure they are seen. But humans don't always make the smartest decisions. We're human. So traffic engineers need to take human frailty into account - and in good designs they do, like banking high speed curves and putting barriers between opposing traffic lanes on highways.
I would note that if you "run [my] ass over and beat [me] up for inconveniencing [your] day" then you are not following the law.
The Drivers Manual, page 46 #7 says, "Do not drive so as to make a pedestrian yield to you; the motorist should always yield to the pedestrian.
So, even if a pedestrian doesn't follow the law, the motorist is required to yield to the pedestrian (if it is possible.) I know that some people would prefer to let people suffer natural consequences for doing dumb things like crossing against traffic, but capital punishment is also not legal in Alaska.
I hope you're in a better mood next time you stop by here.
Steve, let me clarify a few things. 1. I was not having a bad day yesterday, nor am I today! 2. My comment about you (Anyone) “inconveniencing my day” was referring to more than yielding right of way for a few seconds to avoid a collision! And the beating you (anyone) up, I wouldn’t physically harm anyone! As I said before, “I don’t pull out in front of the last car and I’m not afraid to wait my turn.” 3. While it's great that "The Drivers Manual, page 46 #7 says, "Do not drive so as to make a pedestrian yield to you; the motorist should always yield to the pedestrian." That doesn’t mean that motorist are required to yield to the pedestrian as you stated (though I would hope any vehicle operator would to prevent serious injury or death to another person by doing so when necessary). #7 only refers to those in a marked crosswalk, abiding by the law… That’s why it’s important to KNOW THE LAW and what it states. I have listed the ordinances below.
ReplyDeleteThe municipal code states (Posted online at http://library5.municode.com)"
9.20.020 Right-of-way in crosswalks.
A. When traffic control signals are not in place or not in operation, the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way, slowing down or stopping if need be to so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk.
(there is more that I cut out, for space sake..)
and
9.20.040 Crossing at point other than crosswalk.
A. Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.
This doesn't in any way state anything different than what I said before... People need to know the law. I am aware of people and take whatever action necessary (without creating additional risk for accident) to avoid any collision, but if people (before I stated just drivers, I meant everyone), drivers, riders and walkers alike took time to learn the law and abide as best as they can by them, it would be a much safer place. I’m tired of hearing how people need to watch out for pedestrians and bicyclist, maybe they need to watch out for themselves too, (Personal Accountability). Like you said “and wise pedestrians always check for right turning cars before crossing to be sure they are seen.
I know how scary it is to be in a vehicle/pedestrian accident, I had a bicyclist run into the side of my car, then she spent the next hour “educating” me as to how drivers don’t look for bicyclist… and so on, I felt like crap. However, in the end, she was in the wrong, she broke the law, not me. She was at fault and got nothing from my insurance, though she tried… she should have known the law. So while I may sound crazy, I’m not, I’m just tired of people not taking responsibility for their actions and blaming eveyone else… if you’re going to drive, walk, ride your bike or otherwise travel, please know the laws. Exercising good common sense wouldn’t hurt either!
Anon, sometimes I get too serious here and take people too literally, but I am trying to offer a blog where people can discuss things with no hostility.
ReplyDeleteI don't think I disagree with anything you've said this time round, though I do believe that drivers are required, even when pedestrians are not in crosswalks and are not even legally on the road, to give the pedestrian the right of way.
And I would emphasize that it is a lot more dangerous for bikers when cars misbehave than vice versa. My son was riding in the bike lane last year when a car just veered over and plowed into him. Just wasn't paying attention. Four ribs, a collar bone, and lots of skin. He's very lucky and pretty much over it now.
But I too, mutter to myself about stupidity when I see winter bikers taking their right of way in the dark on icy streets in traffic. Car vs. Bike - not contest.
Thanks for coming back and clarifying.