This is Going To Be One Nasty, Tacky Election

I recently had a post about how some people aren't affected by facts that contradict what they believe and how emotion and personal narratives, the stories one has about how the world works.  As someone who thinks facts are important - would you like your doctor operating on you based on her opinion or based on scientific evidence? - I also recognize that we are all ruled by emotion as well.  And we need both to be rounded human beings.

So I'm posting this video, not because I personally like it, but because it shows that the Democrats are abandoning any semblance of rationality and reasonableness and going for the truly tasteless in hopes it will work for them like it does for Republicans.  This is an anti-Joe Miller ad that says it's from Blue America,  Outsiders who seem to think Alaskans  read at a 3rd grade level.  I wonder where they could have gotten that idea?

From the Blue America website:

Blue America '10

Among Blue America pages you will find actions dedicated to specific endeavors, like defeating Blue Dogs, rewarding members of Congress who have been fighting for meaningful health care or for ending the disastrous occupation of Afghanistan. There is even a page dedicated specifically to giving props to progressive hero Alan Grayson and one dedicated to the best challengers running for the U.S. Senate this year. I'm kind of partial to the one that Digby came up with to send a message to the Inside the Beltway Establishment by supporting BETTER Democrats, the non-corporate kind.

Whistling Vivaldi at the Anchorage School District with Tim Wise

Tim Wise met with ASD teachers and administrators today and talked about a lot of situations where racial stereotypes - on the part of the students as well as the teachers - affected students.  He cited a book called Whistling Vivaldi by Claude Steele.  The title, he said, comes from a black kid who found that at night when he walked near whites, they tended to cross the street and/or clutch their purses much closer.  He started whistling Vivaldi in these situations and white folks stopped avoiding him.   An interesting story that reminds me of black male friends and acquaintances who tend to dress up when driving to lower the odds of being stopped by the police.

Wise cited a number of other studies some of which are in the Vivaldi book.  Here's an example from a review of the book by Coert Visser

Experiment 2: Aronson, Lustina, Good, Keough, Steele & Brown (1999)
In this experiment, the researchers asked highly competent white males to take a difficult math test. In the control condition the test was taken normally. In the experimental condition, the researchers told the test takers that one of their reasons for doing the research was to understand why Asians seemed to perform better on these tests. Thus, they artificially created a stereotype threat. In the experimental condition, the test takers solved significantly fewer of the problems on the test and felt less confident about their performance.

You can listen to an Claude Steele on Talk of the Nation back in April this year.

And if you are in Anchorage, you can hear Tim Wise at UAA Wendy Williamson Auditorium tonight (TUESDAY, SEPT 14) at 7:30pm.  Free.  Parking around Wendy Williamson is also free from 7pm. 

Tim Wise 10am Alaska Time on Talk of Alaska Now

Turn on KSKA right now - 90.3.  Or your APRN station around Alaska.


Here is in the workshop last night in the Mountain View Credit Union 1 community room.

From the APRN website:

Talk of Alaska: Racism

Fri, September 10, 2010
Years ago, the best-selling book “Black Like Me” showed White Americans discrimination they never had a chance to see.   Now the book “White Like Me” points out once again that it is all too easy to be totally un-aware of racism.  But that doesn’t mean it disappears.   The author of “White Like Me,” Tim Wise will be the guest on the next  Talk of Alaska.
HOST: Steve Heimel, APRN
GUESTS:

• Tim Wise, author, “White Like Me”
• Callers Statewide

PARTICIPATE:

• Post your comment before, during or after the live broadcast (comments may be read on air)
• Send e-mail to talk [at] aprn [dot] org (comments may be read on air)
• Call 550-8422 in Anchorage or 1-800-478-8255 during the live broadcast

LIVE Broadcast: Tuesday, September 14. 2010 at 10:00 a.m. on APRN stations statewide

Anti-Racism Workshop with Tim Wise Goes Well

[Disclosure:  I'm on the steering committee of Healing Racism in Anchorage, so I'm both reporting and promoting this.  But I wouldn't be involved if I didn't think it was very important and if we didn't have good programming.]


We had limited the workshop to 35 participants, but a few more showed up, and so we squeezed them in.  Squeezed around small tables gave us an intimacy, which, along with a good dinner, brought us closer together.  Here's Tim Wise responding to someone's comment.

Much of the workshop was discussion in our smaller groups.  We began with people saying what they hoped to get out of the workshop.  Then, while the group ate, Tim synthesized what we'd said into two basic areas:

1.  How do respond to individual incidents, and

2.  How to respond to structural racism.

We then worked in our groups to make lists of why people hesitate to speak out when faced with racial discrimination - whether jokes, disparaging comments about a group of people, or structural obstacles based on racial stereotypes.  It was a long and interesting list.  I don't think I got half of what was raised in my notes.  But here are some of the reasons. (Of course, the discussion was much richer than this.)

1.  People don't like confrontation, want to be polite.
2.  Fear - of retaliation, of being ostracized
3.  Exhaustion - it happens so often that people are just too tired to try to explain what is wrong
4.  Don't think it will make a difference
5.  There's unequal power - one has to complain to people in authority
6.  Feeling all alone in the situation
7.  Too emotional when it happens to be articulate and 'reasonable'

Related to this was the question of whose responsibility is it for white people to be aware of racism and its effects on people of color and on whites themselves.

There were also some suggestions for taking action.

1.  Sometimes one should wait until both sides are calmed down so the discussion can be more productive.
2.  Humor and the arts are often ways to defuse or make the point.
3.  Facts are useful, but (as I posted the other day) they won't necessarily change someone's opinion.  At that point counter narratives are necessary to get people to understand.  That is, telling one's own story and own pains to counter the other person's story of how things work.  Often people simply have no experience and hearing someone's story will expand their own narrative.
4.  Ask questions rather than give answers.  "Why do you think that?"  "I don't get it.  Can you explain to me why you think that is funny?"  "Do you have any data to support that?"
5.  Tim offered a two step option:
Step 1:  Personalize the lesson - give an example from your own life
Step 2:  Depersonalize the critique

• talk about the situation and the behavior but not the person.  
• acknowledge that you yourself have on occasion succumbed to such thinking. 
• acknowledge that even the best intended people think or say racially biased things because our society has conditioned us to think that way. 

We had people from a wide set of backgrounds and the discussion was rich and helpful.  This is the sort of safe setting in which to talk about race that  Healing Racism in Anchorage creates for our six week classes.  A mix of guided large and small group discussions to share experiences and perspectives grounded with factual information and lots of participation.  The next such class will begin Wednesday, September 22.  There's more information at the Healing Racism in Anchorage website.

Tuesday morning you can listen to Tim Wise on KSKA (91.1 FM) Talk of Alaska in Anchorage (and APRN stations around Alaska as well as online) from 10 - 11am.

And there's a free talk at UAA's Wendy Williamson Auditorium at 7:30pm.  Parking around the auditorium after 7pm is free.

Student Loans and Private For-Profit Colleges

I know someone, let's call him Mike, who has attended a number of for-profit colleges, mostly on-line.  They've promised him all sorts of things and helped him get student loans from the government. 

Charter College Graduation - Faculty

After he graduated from high school - a questionable achievement from a small rural school where a relative was involved in deciding who graduated - he applied to University of Alaska Anchorage (UAA).  They told him, after he took some tests,  he had to take a number of remedial courses.  This seemed like a hassle so he looked around online and quickly found schools eager to enroll him for online classes, and they would help him get federal student loans.  The tuition at all these private colleges was MUCH higher than at UAA.

I'm writing about this because of a NY Times editorial  today about new regulations for colleges regarding student loans.

The Obama administration has proposed tough and much-needed regulations for lucrative for-profit colleges. Industry is predictably pushing back hard, with legions of high-priced lobbyists and organized letter-writing campaigns. The administration must hold its ground.

The final rules, due out in November, must be strong enough to rein in businesses that have made an art of enrolling students who have no chance of graduating and stripping them of state and federal grants and loans. Besides ending such abuses of students, the regulations are needed to protect taxpayers, who foot the bill for waste and abuse in the college aid program.

Lt. Gov Campbell - Grad Speaker

Mike has never finished a program, but has huge debts now that likely will never be paid.  The money goes from the government loan program to the college.  Then the student owes the money.  If he doesn't pass his classes or pay his debt, the college still has the money and he has the debt. This is someone with developmental problems.  He can do many things well and seems normal, sort of. He's a good person, but there are serious gaps in his cognitive abilities. 

He's been taking classes at Charter College and recently went through graduation, though he hasn't completed all his coursework yet.  We were invited and attended at the Atwood Center in the Performing Arts Center downtown.  

I've been wondering how to address this event and this seems like a reasonable context.  I don't know how good the classes are.  Mike told me that basically you just have to go to class and pay your bills.  But that's just one person's story.  I'm sure that you can learn things.  I'm sure he's learning something.  But can you get a degree without learning much?  It sounds like the answer is yes.  And they charge a lot more than UAA and it seems there is a big incentive to get the student loan money that is available. 

In Lobby after Grad Ceremony

After hearing Mike's tales of woe, and how he talks about his $40,000 student debt which - has resulted, almost, in an AA degree - I tend to think that some sort of legislation cracking down on these private colleges (and public colleges that have large numbers of defaulting loans from students) needs to be passed and enforced. 

Of course, there's a much larger context to discuss - what is the purpose of a college degree?  What kind of jobs really require one?  Should everyone go to college?  What sort of status does a college degree confer?  There are complex issues, but they'll have to wait for a different post.

Tim Wise - Native American Calling Monday Morning

Tim Wise was picked up at the airport Sunday night.  I've been working on getting little things ready for his visit - name tags and food (it's going to be good) for the workshop and other sorts of last minute work. 

You can listen to Tim Wise on Native American Calling on KNBA Monday Morning.  That's 90.3 FM in Anchorage.  But this show is going nation-wide and you can call in.  Here's information from their website:

Native America Calling Airs Live
Monday - Friday, 1-2pm Eastern (9-10amAlaska Time)

To participate call 1-800-996-2848, that's 1-800-99-NATIVE

Monday, September 13, 2010– Healing Racism in Anchorage:
Several incidents with overt racist overtones divided the city of Anchorage, but a group called Healing Racism in Anchorage is determined to bring people back together. They are holding a series of events that take the issue of racism head-on, including bringing in “one of the most brilliant, articulate and courageous critics of white privilege in the nation.” Are white people just too insensitive when it comes to what they think is funny, or is it that Native people can’t take a joke? Guests are author/anti-racist activist Tim Wise and Liz Medicine Crow (Tlingit/Haida) of the Alaska Native Policy Center.

I'm not sure how much work Tim has done with Native American groups, so I suspect he'll be doing some learning in this setting, but this should be interesting.  

If you aren't in Anchorage you can listen to it on affiliate stations in Alaska and 15 other states - mainly those with significant Native American populations.  Here's the list below.

At the end of the list of states, there's an internet hook up, so you can listen live on-line even if you don't have this on a local radio station.  For the Alaska stations click on the link.

ARIZONA
KUYI	FM 88.1	Keams Canyon
KGHR	FM 91.5	Tuba City
KNNB	FM 88.1	Whiteriver
	FM 89.9	Cibecue
	FM 105.3	Vernon
KOHN	FM 91.9	Sells
KPYT	FM 100.3	Tuscon
Radio Phoenix	http://radiophoenix.org	Phoenix
CALIFORNIA
KIDE	FM 91.3	Hoopa
COLORADO
KSJD	FM 91.5	Cortez
	FM 91.1	Pleasant View & Dolores
	FM 104.1	Mancos
KSUT	FM 91.3	Ignacio - Southern Ute Tribal Radio
IDAHO
KISU	FM 91.0	Pocatello
MONTANA
KGVA	FM 88.1	Fort Belknap
Brave Nation	http://bravenation.stlabre.org/	Ashland
NEW MEXICO
KABR	AM 1500	Alamo
KUNM	FM 89.9	Albuquerque/Santa Fe
	FM 91.9	Espanola
	FM 91.9	Taos, Las Vegas
KRRT	FM 90.9	Arroyo Seco, Cuba
KRAR	FM 91.1	Cimarron/Eagle Nest
KBOM	FM 88.7	Socorro, Nageezi
KCIE	FM 90.5	Dulce
KGLP	FM 91.7	Gallup
KTDB	FM 89.7	Ramah/ Pinehill
KSHI	FM 90.9	Zuni
KSJE	FM 90.9	Farmington
NORTH CAROLINA
WPVM	FM 103.5	Asheville
NORTH DAKOTA
KEYA	FM 88.5	Belcourt
KMHA	FM 91.3	New Town
KABU	FM 90.7	St. Michael
OKLAHOMA
KCNP	FM 89.5	Ada
KGOU	FM 106.3	Norman
	FM 97.9	Ada
	FM 103.1	Siminole
KROU	FM 105.7	Oklahoma City
OREGON
KCUW	FM 104.3	Pendleton
KWSO	FM 91.9	Warm Springs
SOUTH DAKOTA
KLND	FM 89.5	Little Eagle
KILI	FM 90.1	Porcupine
UTAH
KRCL	FM 90.9	Salt Lake City
	FM 90.9	Park City
WASHINGTON
KSER	FM 90.7	Everett
KSFC	FM 91.9	Spokane
KYNR	AM 1490	Toppenish
WISCONSIN
WOJB	FM 88.9	Hayward
WYOMING
KWRR	FM 89.5	Ethete
INTERNET (additional)
Native Voice One		http://www.nv1.org/

He'll also be doing a workshop for US Fish and Wildlife employees in the early afternoon and a public workshop in the evening which is sold out.

But you can also listen Tuesday morning on Talk of Alaska on KSKA and in the evening at a free event at Wendy Williamson Auditorium at UAA at 7:30 again Tuesday.

Rafael Nadal's Uncle

The New York Times had an article by Karen Crouse on Rafael Nadal's uncle who is his coach and, well, his uncle.  In today's world one has to be skeptical of everything we read, but it would be nice to know that Toni Nadal is really the guardian angel he's portrayed in the article.  We all need an uncle like this in our lives.

“I am happy when Rafael plays good tennis, but I take more pleasure when people say Rafael is a very good person,” Toni Nadal said. “For me, it is so much more important to be a good person.” 

. . .After the match, his uncle talked to him about his demeanor. “I tell him you must be always grateful of the life,” Toni Nadal said. “I think one of the most important things I say always to Rafael is to have a good face. Because in this life, the ball going out is not a very big problem.” 

“When you think you are the king of the world,” Toni Nadal said, “you are really stupid in my opinion because in this life every person is important.” 

Well, before hitting the post button, I just had to see what others said about Toni Nadal.  It's not all good.  In a June 2009 post, Khalid Siddiqui writes at Bleacher Report:

Hey jou fan!!!! What jour problem? 'Ow dare jou cheer for anywon except my Rafa? Jou stupid French don't know greatness when jou see eet. Jos becoz Rafa eez from Spain..."
(And the rant continues.)
Seriously, Toni Nadal has emerged as a completely sore loser . . .

The Guardian also covered this incident.

And there's a June 2010 Tennis Country piece about Toni's illegal coaching:

World Number One, Rafael Nadal, was fined $2000 for illegal coaching by his long-time coach, uncle Toni, during a match at Wimbledon last week.  As his comments in his post-match press conference below indicate, Nadal did not believe that he had received illegal coaching.  However, Rafa does seem to state that his uncle Toni did “coach” him during other matches in the past, which is clearly against the rules.  This admission by Rafa is actually quite surprising and disturbing given that coaching from the stands is not allowed in men’s professional tennis.

In his post-match press conferences, Nadal said the following:

Was it fair to be warned about coaching? You looked very angry.
RAFAEL NADAL: Sometimes, yes. Not today, in my opinion. But, yes, sometimes in the past Toni talk maybe too much. And when it happened, and the referee or the umpire give me an advice, and if it is continuing, later a warning.  But not today, in my opinion. Yeah, no. . .

Interesting that Karen Crouse didn't mention these other two incidents in her story.  The first three pages of her archived NYT stories are mainly about tennis, swimming, and golf, so she is a regular sports writer.  She had to know about the illegal coaching incident because it was in June this year.  My skepticism is, once again, proven, unfortunately, to be well founded.  Even the NY Times gives us a puff piece that leaves out important information.

If Toni Nadal had stories written about him daily, it wouldn't be necessary to mention the previous issues - people would be expected to know about them.  But there aren't that many stories on Toni.  For many, if not most, readers, I'd guess this is the only one they've read that focused on Toni Nadal, so it needs to be more balanced. 

While I think Uncle Toni is still probably a great influence on nephew Rafael, he's not quite as perfect as Crouse portrays him.  And none of us are. 
 

"Natural Resource Extraction"

We took advantage of the beautiful weather and walked over to the Thai Kitchen for dinner last night.  On the way we passed these woods off of Laurel Street.  We walk along here fairly frequently.  Tonight we saw a blue sign.

You don't see the blue sign?  Look carefully, it's right in the middle. I guess if you were driving by, it would be easy to miss, and impossible to read if you did see it.  But we were walking, so we could see more, and walk up the hill to read what it said.

So, with that basic information, we walked on.

The view from the Thai Kitchen is often pretty spectacular, if you can ignore the strip mall decor in the foreground. Tonight was no exception.  Dinner was good and then we walked home down 42nd Ave.

Since it was too late to call, I tried the Muni website.  It took quite a bit of poking around from the basic www.muni.org  to finding the page where I could look up case # 2010 - 110.  Which didn't exist.  So I tried 2010-110, and there it was:

Staff Report | View Case Comments | Submit Comments
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
Hearing Date:	Monday, Oct 11, 2010 *
Case Number:	2010-110
Petitioner:	Alaska Mental Health Trust Land Office- (TLO) 718 L Street Ste 202 Anchorage, AK 995010000 E-Mail: timothy.spernak@alaska.gov Day Phone: 9072698688
Representative:	Lounsbury & Associates Ken Ayers 5300 A Street Anchorage, AK 995180000 E-Mail: k.ayers@lounsburyinc.com FAX: 9072729065 Day Phone: 9072725451
Application Date:
Request:	Zoning conditional use for a natural resource extraction
Site Address:
Detail:	A conditional use to allow for a natural resource extraction. Providence-Chester Creek Subdivision, Tract C-2. Generally located east of Laurel Street and north of E. 40th Avenue
Legal Desc.:	PLI Public lands & institutions district
* Community Council review comments are due to the Planning Department 10 days prior to the public hearing date if they want them included in the Board or Commission packet.

So, the request is for "Zoning conditional use for a natural resource extraction"


Maybe they're going to drill for oil?  Mine for gold?  Coal?  Or is this a timber harvest?  Do you think the Muni Planning Department, now that they have a website for this stuff, could give us a few more details?  Is it vague like this

• because they don't want us to know?  
• Or because it just never occurred to them to put up more information?  
• Or they don't have the computer ability to add more information? 
• Maybe they just like talking to people, so they just put up a little info so people need to call them.
• Or maybe they think people will give up in frustration.
• Or maybe they just have so much to do they didn't get around to it. (I'm not being sarcastic here, with budget cuts, there are fewer people to do more work.  And if the public doesn't find out about these things, then businesses - and in this case a quasi governmental body - don't have to face the public before they get regulations waived.  Ergo, less government is better. Now I am being sarcastic.)

We were in London and Berlin and Brussels and Washington DC this summer and they all have these little pockets of trees amidst all the buildings and roads.  They are little oases amidst the concrete.  Anchorage still has these clumps of original forest here and there in the middle of town.  Some people argue that we don't need to preserve this greenery in town because we are surrounded by thousands of acres of wilderness.

But you have to get in a car and go to that wilderness.  We need to have wilderness, or at least green spaces, that kids can walk to from home.  Places where we can connect with nature.  When they are mostly cut down, it's almost impossible to get them back.  The city has to essentially die, like Detroit, before you can reclaim the land.  And it takes a lot longer to get real trees going in Anchorage than it does in Detroit.

The announcement also says this is on Laurel "north of East 40th."  That's an interesting description.  While East 40th may exist on their maps at this point, it's just woods going up the hill like the rest of this land right now.  And it's green between two buildings between Laurel and Lake Otis.  That road, funded by the State, will be a gross invasion on this little paradise with this lovely forest covered hill that doesn't take up much space, but preserves our connection to wilderness.  And cleans the air.  And buffers the noise.  And moderates the wind.  And percolates the rain water.  And gives refuge to migrating birds.  This isn't some wimpy green fantasy.  This is about recognizing the ecosystem's natural recycling and cleansing functions that we cannot duplicate for much greater costs.

This is all Mental Health Trust land, just south of McLaughlin Youth Facilities.  I think the abstract idea of a land trust for people with mental health problems (arguably a fairly large portion of our population) is a great idea.  But practically, like the land for the University, it is a way to take otherwise almost, sometimes, inviolable land, and putting it for sale, because it helps the mentally ill and it helps education.   And then legislators can say, "Why come to us for money?  Just sell your land?"

This post is full of links - many to past posts - which all relate to what is covered here.  If what I say in this post isn't clear to you, then click on the link for more depth on that particular point.

Birthday's Eleftheriades Got Best Actor at Cannes Independent Film Festival

I just learned that Natalie Eleftheriades, the star of Birthday, shown at the Anchorage International Film Festival last December, won the Best Actor Award in May at the Cannes Independent Film Festival (CIFF), which runs alongside the more famous Cannes Festival and is for low budget films.

From the CIFF website:

Best actor: Natalie Eleftheriadis for BIRTHDAY (Australia)

The site also mentions her experiences at Cannes.

With the mission of integrating low-budget indie films into the lifeblood of the Cannes experience, the Cannes Independent Film Festival works to level the playing field for new filmmakers to get their works shown, and sold, in Cannes.

Actress Natalie Eleftheriadis, who also produced BIRTHDAY, used the screening at CIFF as a jumping off point for selling her film to buyers gathered for the March du Film. She, and the film's director James Harkness, spent their days working the Croisette, enticing sales agents and buyers to attend BIRTHDAY's screening at the CIFF Villa. Eleftheriadis said "Being a part of CIFF has provided a unique 'entree' into the market with its boutique, intimate screening facility and wonderfully supportive indie filmmaker vibe. Participating in the festival has generated considerable buzz for our film, and we have planted the seeds for many future international collaborations. The Cannes Independent is a gem in the festival circuit."

In a post last December, I let the Anchorage Film Festival judges know I thought they blew it by not awarding Birthday a prize and I'm pleased to see the film and the star recognized in France. 

And here's the trailer. 




The official Birthday website is here.

The Anchorage International Film Festival has had some excellent films and recognized them as such. The other films in 2009 were good - particularly Hipsters. But Birthday should have been in amongst the winners.

First Permanent Fund Dividend Checks To Go Out Sept. 16

[UPDATE Sept. 16, 2010:  I've put up a new post after calling the Governor's office who said the official announcement will be Tuesday, Sept. 21.]

From the Permanent Fund Dividend site: 

Prior Year Dividends in eligible status by close of business September 10, 2010 will be direct deposited and mailed September 16, 2010.  [Update 10am - Anon 8:40am points out this says "prior year".  I'm not sure why prior year checks would wait until now, I don't have time to check now.]

2010 Dividends and Prior Year applications in eligible status by September 24, 2010 will be direct deposited and mailed October 7, 2010.

As I write this I can't find anything that tells us how much this year's dividend will be.  But the timing of the amount announcement varies. [UPDATE Sept. 16:  Governor's office says the announcement will be Tuesday, Sept. 21.]

The last three check amount announcements were:

•  September 19, 2007   ($1654)
  
  
• September 5, 2008  ($2069 + $1200)
   
• September 23, 2009.  ($1305)

But if some are going to be mailed out on September 16 this year, they are going to have to know the amount pretty quick. 

A July 31 ADN article predicted it would be pretty close to last year's $1,305 - between  $1,250 and $1,320.


The Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation website (different from the PFD site) explains how the amount is calculated:

Each year, the dividend distribution is calculated using a formula set in state law. The formula is based on an average of the Fund’s income over five years in order to produce a more stable flow of dividend amounts from year to year.

How the PFD amount is calculated

1. Add Fund Statutory Net Income from the current plus the previous four fiscal years.
2. Multiply by 21%
3. Divide by 2
4. Subtract prior year obligations, expenses and PFD program operations
5. Divide by the number of eligible applicants

Once the dividend amount has been calculated, the next step is to determine if enough income is available in the earnings reserve account to pay the dividend. While the full amount of the earnings reserve account is available for appropriation, the principal is not. It is possible that, in a given year, the calculation may produce a dividend although the funds may not be available to pay it.

The PF Dividend site has a link to a PDF file that shows the actual calculation for the 2009 check.   I noticed that while

the PF Corporation site says:   "Divide by the number of eligible applicants,"

the PF Dividend site says:"Divide by the estimated number of eligible dividend applicants"

Since they have two different 'eligible status' dates, and the first batch of checks goes out before the second 'eligible status' date, I guess they would have to use an estimate.