I had trouble with the online broadcasts yesterday and today again they kept dropping off. So I got to the Board Meeting around 10:30. Here's an overview of the post:
OVERVIEW
- My observations of the day
- What they were doing - mapping Matsu, Kenai, and Anchorage for initial proposal due Sept 10
- Issues that Came Up
- Census Block Issues - 45,000 blocks in 2010, only in 2020
- Balancing the State required criteria
- Socio-Economic coherence
- Compactness versus Deviation
- Aesthetic compactness versus meaningful compactness
- Deviation matters
- A few other things to consider
- My very, very rough notes of the meeting
Issues: Balancing the State required criteri
- Socio-Economic comparability, compactness, contiguity, and deviation (how much a district deviates from the 18,335 number that is the ideal size per district (total population divided by 40 House seats.)
Pennsylvania districts |
NOTES
I did my best to record what people said. I'm a reasonably good typist but I'm not court transcriber. So there are lots of gaps and ??? where I wasn't sure. And it's not verbatim. But it will give you an idea of what was said. I tried to put times in now and then. When the tapes and transcripts come out, you may have a better idea of what you're looking for.
Ak Redistricting Board Wed Sept 8, 2021
Arrived at 10:50
Taking about Denali Borough - only 1700?? People, has to be part of another district.
Which of the three Matsu’s should we use.
Peter Tolkerson (Executive Dir)Matsu B would be under about 2%. Reflects deviation of Borough’s ??
Budd Simpson - all the community boundaries and local boundaries, ask Nicole that some of hers were not as tight. Otherwise easier to stick with these more compacts
Nicole - accepted city boundaries and didn’t let the rural creep into the city boundaries
Bethany - all had city boundaries in tact, but let some of rural in
Nicole - some rural areas were put into cities
Bethany - you’ll see Wasilla and Palmer - green in between is a question of whether you add these to one side - core Matsu, suburban, not considered rural areas
Still feel Bethany’s version maintains socio-economic goals, cause hers seems more compact
Nicole - I think our maps have more in common than not, she’s just gone out in a different direction to pull people in. This is my first time looking at Bethany’s map. Preliminary view I don’t see pitfalls, I get it, it looks prettier.
Peter: This is a starting point and make adjustments from there
Nicole - wanted to be respectful of public testimony. Heard from Delta Sutton area feel they are pulled in and they become Matsu Palmer seats and lose their distinction.
Nicole - Way to overlay my map over Bethany’s?
Peter: Map overlay [I had trouble figuring out what the map overlays showed]
John: Within borders of borough, socio-economic ok, but next looking at compactness and one vote.
Nicole - I think my deviations are smaller than Bethany’s
John: But compactness becomes important. The more irregular looking, you potentially get into odd shapes that raise questions about compactness. Within a percent or two of deviation, I think compactness becomes more important.
Wraps around Wasilla
Nicole: I see hers is more compact, Maybe I’m not seeing something. Move on.
Nicole: I’m fine with Bethany’s version. And Anchorage creeps up into Matsu.
John: When we put Denali Borough in, that won’t happen.
Peter: 20 minute exercise to adjust it in, then wave of changes will probably touch every district.
Palmer is one, Wasilla is one and Big Lake is one.
John: Let’s stand at ease. 20-30 minutes to integrate this into draft we’ve been working on. Stand at ease.
Break: Bethany: I like both of those better than the Anchorage stand alone. Move ER, Eklutna up toward Matsu
11:16
Peter break
45,292 census blocks to 28,000 blocks - makes fine tuning difficult. Members want to add a little section and get some weirdly shaped block.
11:42 Back in session
TJ: Overview of Bethany’s map - added Denali B to Matsu, six districts 15, 16, 17 18, 19, 20
Added Anchorage north, but didn’t fill that out yet.
SE, North, SW, Bristol Bay, some discussion of inside Fairbanks, Finished Matsu area. Haven’t discussed Kenai P. Or Gulf Coast, and Whittier is without a Borough.
Peter: Remaining: reconcile new deviations by taking out Nenana and ???? - deviations have increased, B can refine those now or we can come back later for that.
5.92 districts - all will be under. 18 suffered loss when let Nenana go. Equalize that loss when dealing with other district boundaries. Does 18 abut to the north?
That’s the Denali B line. Stops around Houston.
Bethany: Where does Denali B. stop.
Right here.
John: Greatest deviation? A: 18 down 581 - they are all negative - [meaning they have more representation]
[They’re adding blocks to make things look cleaner - that is there aren’t strange spaces breaking up an area.
19 and 20 deviation spread]
Bethany - we have that nice straight line though
Nicole, but if
Made little change, doesn’t mess with compactness much. Now they are just grabbing population and there is no consideration of neighborhoods being discussed.
John: Let’s move on
Nichole: Would like to see those numbers closer. 15 is too big. Compared to
Debate between Bethany and Nicole - Deviation is not part of the big three,
John: First look at socio-economical compatibility, then compact, then
Melanie - we can still do this later.
Attorney: the change didn’t change compactness, but got more even deviation. If you have odd shaped districts not good. [Compact doesn’t mean smooth]
Peter:
Bethany: My preference. Recommended not break B boundary in more than one direction. South, including Whittier, still breaking to south
John: I don’t recall that being critical importance
Bethany: No problem with South Knik
Attorney: Courts have said that Matsu and Anchorage are socio-economically the same.
Bethany: Include Anchorage
Nicole: John made strong argument for strong B boundary and here we have great deviation
John: Difference between preservingAnchorage and Matsu with protecting Fairbanks
Nicole: I don’t think so.
Budd: 800 people leave in Anchorage or better used in Matsu.
Peter: word Better is something you can decide. Anchorage is less underpopulated than Matsu.
Budd: Better area - it’s not in Anchorage Borough, nice line
Bethany: Equalization as opposed to deviations.
Attorney: First is to have compact and then obligation one person one vote. Where you feel that closer to equalize, create districts that are no longer compact.
Bethany: That last ??? completely changed compactness, but didn’t effect deviation that much. Won’t be possible in Anchorage.
Nicole: Explain to me how that compactness.
Nicole: The way that city is drawn is part of the problem.
Melanie: Time for a break, need to walk around even if lunch not here
12:11
John - back, about 1pm get finished by 3. Lunch supposed to be here by now.
12:25 - everyone back in seats and discussing maps - CLEARLY this has become an illegal meeting and Peter is trying to scatter the Board members. Several leave. Now Budd is talking about coconut oil.
Lunch arrived about 12:50
Back at 1:18
John: Lunch late being delivered. This room will have 3pm public meeting so we will get out by 3:45. Should we move on to Anchorage? Sounds like it. Let’s move on
Peter: Good to move to Anchorage, but we haven’t done Kenai and Anchorage will probably take a long time.
John: Sounds ok.
Peter: Kenai Pen - goes to Yakatat Borough, Cordova. Few members and I worked on this all day after last meeting. Added additional members throughout following week. Discovered the Cordova and Kodiak and NE Kachemak Bay have long time ties to Kodiak.
Looking at 11, 12, 13, and 14. Kenai-Cordova 3.3, 2.4 with Kodiak 4.09 districts. Each is overpopulated by 1.2 to 2%. Trying to spread that across the district. Without Kachemak silo area, you can take city of Seward and give Kachemak back to Homer. But then with Seldovia etc. no one was happy. But adding Cordova and Kodiak allows deviations that are reasonably close.
This is just a starting point. Could put Cordova with interior or connect Seward and Homer. Population comes out. Kasilof Nikiski other options.
Budd: Comment, Peter and I spent a lot of time on this, seems really difficult coming up with rational explanation. I think this is an elegant solution to difficult district.
Bethany: Shape of appendage would be better if fixed. Doesn’t change deviation.
Peter: Want to improve that. But hard to make a cleaner line. Feature of underlying census geography government made.
Melanie: Socio-Economy pitfalls of this?
Peter: Critique Katchemak silo area, connections to Homer. Not violating city boundaries, but just connections.
Eric: Fox River ??? Takes in several areas.
Bethany: Part of map -
Eric: Katchemak Silo, ??? And ??? Not census blocks but are communities.
Bethany:
Matt - North Kenai paired with Anchorage and that has passed Court rulings. This Board seems to be going toward community boundaries. Court has approved of Gulf Coast districts in the past. Don’t see any show stoppers here.
John: Let’s move on to Anchorage.
Peter: How should we proceed. We can show member versions.
John: Nicole?
Nicole: Mine doesn’t work any more because I included Valdez.
Bethany: I have one version.
Peter: We can show the differences on the screen. But merging, I think we should do tomorrow - long technical process. Nicole’s Anchorage for her Northern portion
TJ: Bethany’s
?? Bethany Markam on the left.
Bethany: Started with existing districts. Then realized having existing districts in place misleading and then just turned them off. I brought a map I’d worked on then kept getting odd shapes and still had a few appendages. Let’s take this pop north and things would add up and get weird shape. Then take it east and west instead. Just by virtue of census block shapes that led to vertical rather than horizontal.
Nicole -
Bethany: split east side and military. Services and previous elmendorf and Richardson, split so they are socio-economic, not a big difference. But also ER, trying to keep ER complete in one district instead of splitting it up. Encompass ER, Chugiak, Eklutna - get more rural areas versus core of ER.
TJ - two different maps - also Wasilla showed overlay one plan over the other. Bethany versus Nicole Blue lines see differences.
District down 2%
Chukiak, Peters Creek, and ??? 792 in there add to -256, added back to Matsu map.
District 13 S. ER into one district
15 takes north and south forks with portion of east Anchorage.
Chugiak/Peters and majority of Fort Rich
Rest is self explanatory. Nicole’s map on top
Nicole - when I drafted didn’t have district boundaries and considering public testimony. Didn’t get enough pop to make whole. Wanted Chugiak, Peters whole without ER came down to border of ER proper and cover ER to be in own district. Got much of base. But service members all over community.
Inlet and Govt Hill (not Mt View) and tried to keep east districts in tact and not go into south Anchorage. Census blocks made big differences. West 17 and 15 are primary mid town districts and try to keep them east of Minnesota. Then all the way over to Turnagain, Lake Hood, Spenard, then to Sandlake. Follow creek boundaries. 14 needed to go into 15. 13 didn’t love this shape. Once you get to end of mapping, have trouble. Also, the way Census blocked this. Some very wild census blocks.
10 big chunk of south Anchorage and hillside. District 9 really deviates from map Board is producing. Don’t look at 9. Kitchen sink district.
John: Hard for me. I just don’t have an opinion on this. Maybe Nicole and Marham work together and see what you come up with for those 16 seats. OK Do you want to take 20 minutes now. We still have public testimony to hear. In 20 minutes then get wrapped up to adjuourn.
Nicole: I don’t think that’s realistic. I think there’s a benefit for everyone participating.
Fix Boundaries for Matsu and then
Bethany: Are we going to….
Matt Singer: Going back to whether the 800 area of Knik. AK Supreme Court said the two Boroughs are Socio-economically integrated. If so, is moving those folks into Anchorage area to allow for less deviation is that practical. We don’t combine communities where creates map that is not Socio-economically integrated. So can’t use that as a strong justification for drawing the line. Allow some blurring of line to get more population evenly distributed. I know board focused on honoring political boundaries, but really one and the same.
Peter: Matsu districts are more underpopulated than Anchorage so moving that area to Matsu improves the deviation. Looking at the 22 seats rather than the 16 seats of Anchorage.
Matt: I think that makes sense. Try to balance pop among those 22 districts.
Peter: Will cause bringing Matsu district down into Anchorage because underpopulated.
Bethany: I’ve seen the court ruling that says Matsu and Anchorage are one socio-economic districts.
Eric: Anchorage, Denali Borough and Matsu together about 22 districts. Every district down about 165.
Peter: But it will come up against compactness thing. Still place for judgment. We’re going to go south and get greater and greater underpopulation
John: Let’s see what happens. Let’s start at 18?
Matt: Fair to say that board is being oversensitive to compactness when dealing with urban areas. What’s a problem is weird corridors and appendages. Intended to combat improper gerrymandering. I’d say within these areas. Is this generally a compact shape. Does it make sense. Not get overly caught up on jagged edge. That’s a census block shape. Wouldn’t concern yourself with that granular detail. What’s troublesome, if you just focus on the numbers you can say, that looks like starfish or octopus. Then courts say why.
John: For the purpose of deviation we’re making them more odd shape. Is it practicable to make odd shapes to get better numbers.
Matt: One side of the street or other side of street - does this make sense for the neighborhood. If you’re down by 55 or 100 people that is a small deviation. Good to make numbers match. No court says you need exactly. Why having computers do this versus experienced Alaskans. A little more deviation ok.
John: Maybe this is a good time to take a break. Need to get into public testimony. Stop mapping for now. Testimony until we need to vacate the room at 2:45.
Testifying
Robin O’Donahue - Coordinate for Alaskans for Fair Redistricting and as life long Faribanksian.
But Nicole’s question. The split in Borough breaks community interest. Does’t look at North south. Ester, etc. connected to UA. North Pole and ? Are together. Another way to think through school systems. All feed to West Valley High School. Don’t believe Chena Ridge and Salcha, you’d have to drive through all the others to get to that district. Thank you.
Nicole: Is there anyway we can see your Fairbanks before next week? If we have it in our binder before we finish.
Robin: Not bound to idea of keeping the Boroughs intact.
John: If asking AFFR giving us map early, then we should discuss with other groups.
Peter: If email map of just Fairbanks, in line with other groups
David Dunsmore: Also AFFR, respectfully push back about historical ties of Kodiak to Kachemak . The Old Believers split from New Believers. Faced severe suppression and forced to Siberia. Kodiak Island settled by Russians in 1784. That split almost like Catholics and Protestants in Ireland. The alternative would be Ninilchik. Fox River has 634 Ninilchk has 845?? Ninilchik not a city but a census area. Founded by Russians in 1700s.
Peter: Suggesting that old believers came over separately from Russians. OB came in 1968 and founded Nikolias they shouldn’t be split into two different districts. Stayed in Siberia until Soviet Union was oppressive, they moved to China, then Oregon, then Alaska.
John: There’s a good book on that
Melanie: Tried to find AFFR online AKfariredistricting.org Coalition of different orgs and individuals across the state. AFL-CIO. We’ve been internally meeting with Alaskans.
2:39 - John: No more testimony here or online. Stand at Recess.