Saturday, July 06, 2013

Redistricting Board Basically Done Except Anchorage/Matsu to Valdez and Fairbanks

I was wishfully thinking the Board was coming back at 3:30pm, but it was 3:00 so I missed the first ⅓. They were working on Southeast when I got there. 

At the end Chair Torgerson said that Kenai and Southeast are settled using Board member McConnochie’s reworked plan that puts Haines and Skagway with downtown Juneau. The North and Northwest are settled too.

Still left to be settled tomorrow is
  • whether Matsu or Anchorage will attach to the Richardson Highway district  and
  • finishing Fairbanks area.  
The Calista map they'd been working with had all of Matsu in five districts and used about 400 people in northernmost Anchorage to hook up along the highway to Valdez and the Richardson Highway.  They are still trying to see if they would rather have Matsu connect to Valdez rather than Anchorage.

The rest are my rough notes as I tried to hear and keep up:

3:16
Torgerson:  Arctic Village willing to come in.  PeggyAnn why don’t you relocate over there.  Mr. White gave us another memo, July 5, yesterday.  A little more depth on Socio-Economic Integration and court rulings. 
I’m still struggling with the Valdez into Anchorage, whether the Richardson Highway Corridor should come to Anchorage that way.  I can see it coming to Southern part because that’s ore integrated.  Page 3 of White:  Kenai and Anchorage integrated.  State argued South Anchorage and Anchorage should be considered the same - so if we interact with any other Borough or Municipality, then it should be considered as one - so it doesn’t matter if it’s north or south - for considering SEI ties is that right?
White:  You have to consider that nexus - look at nexus of entire area.  If connected with a portion, then considered with all of it.  Don’t have to look specifically at ties of North Kenai and South Anchorage - they said no one goes to south Anchorage, they go to the airport, the business area, etc.  But court says the whole entity.
Torgerson:  Borough proportionality is not a constitutional mandate.  Interpreted by the courts right?
White:  Based on equal protection clause - proportional rights by areas, unique to Alaska.  Proportionality based on equity clause.
Torgerson:  This goes on about minimally changing, integrating them, this flexibility should be used only to maximize other Constitutional factors.  If going to use relatively compact districts, the flexibility of the work minimal only used against compact and contiguity.
White:  Also, other things could go there, like proportionality.  You’re right, geographical proportionality is not in sec 6, but comes from equal protection clause of constitution. 
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  One change, dramatically change deviation - put Hydaburg in with Ketchikan and Wrangell.  … Deviation??  33 is .67 and 34 is .29? 
Torgerson:  35 [can’t quite hear]
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  downtown Skagway and Haines, if you put North Juneau with them the the dividing line middle of Mendenhall Valley which is less desirable that this one.
Torgerson: looks to me, trade off, S Juneau but overall, about the same except you traded ?? districts.  Deviation 2%,   [talking about the deviation, but can’t hear]  Are you concerned about SEI of S Juneau and Haines and Skagway?
PeggyAnn McConnochie: no I’m not and testimony we had in Juneau mirrors that. 
Torgerson:  Eric can you load the ??

???? I think it’s happened quite a few times, quite honestly.  This just help me in my mind.  Either the AFFER or Calista 2. 
Eric:  This one is the AFFER2
Torgerson:  Is that 3000?  That’s one problem, how we treat ????  They’re both the same, they married each other.  tied the knot … into Anchorage.  Trying to compare the pros and cons - it goes into Matsu - excess Anchorage pop to Matsu.  Chickaloon ?????
Holm:  Borough mayor preferred
Torgerson:  He testified he liked . . .What’s the deviation on 38?  That’s the traditional corridor for a couple of cycles.  1990s?

It appears we have a solution for Kenai Borough split.
Agreed with Western Alaskan, exclusion of Arctic Village from norther.
Successful redrawn SE.
It appears to me a big piece of the puzzle is the Matsu/Anchorage/Richardson highway, still dangling.  Not suggesting we do anything with it tonight.
Oh yeah, also some Fairbanks issues.

Two regions to finish up before motions to adopt.  I would encourage Jim to work on Fairbanks and have something ready, for us to a peek at.  What time do you leave tomorrow Jim?  3 hours in the morning?  Hopefully we’ll have this done.  Move to more technical aspects -
Mr. White how long to write up a proclamation. 
White:  After you had the map adopted in concept, I could do it in a day or overnight?
Torgerson: submittal to court?
White:  Have to put in all the paperwork and filings, say 3 days.
PeggyAnn McConnochie: after Eric does metes and bounds.
White:  Some simultaneously, after adopt, the write up and metes and bounds and then final signing.
Torgerson:  You need time to make findings.
White:  Yeah but I can sit down. 
Torgerson:  I know contiguity tests, metes and bounds 2 days, hell do that from Juneau, truncation report has to be done tomorrow, legal bit 2 days, findings I left a question mark.  If Board had to adopt findings and how long it would take.  Basically four days after adopting conceptual plan, then four days.
White:  I think Court said adopt, not file. 
Torgerson:  I don’t need the whole board to sign the proclamation.  We all did the first time, but I did myself that last time.  Last time we gave Eric authority to move up to ten people per district if necessary, wouldn’t change deviation.
Trying to get a quorum by the 14th. 
I guess we’ll adjourn.  Everyone think about the Matsu.  Options are like the proclamation plan or run the Richardson Highway into Anchorage.  Anyone else?
Time is 3:43.  Stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10am.  Thank you to those listening on teleconference.  We are adjourned. 

Saturday Morning Redistricting - Fine Tuning, Sort Of, Kenai, Matsu, Fairbanks, Juneau

Board met on the record from 10am until 12 noon.  Basically they were looking at maps and moving census blocks around and trying to figure out if they could make things better.  Some key points:

  1. They used Calista Option 4 as their base map
  2. Started with Kenai.  Kenai has population for three whole districts within the Borough boundary, but they have to figure out what do with the excess population - GIS tech Eric Sandberg was the key person
  3. Part of this included discussion of Kodiak and could they connect Kodiak to Valdez and Cordova without contiguity concerns.  Kodiak is an island so it needs to be contiguous over water, but how far can they go without raising problems?  Part of Kodiak borough is on the mainland across the water from Kodiak. From what I could tell, Board member Bob Brodie, who is from Kodiak, was the key person.
  4. Matsu has five whole districts, plus some excess population.  Should they follow the Calista 4 plan which takes about 400 people from north Anchorage and connects them via the highway to Valdez and the Richardson Highway, or try to take population from Matsu?
  5. Fairbanks North Star Borough has enough population for five districts plus about 7,000 excess.  Board member Jim Holm, who is from Fairbanks was working this one.
  6. Southeast - Board member PeggyAnn McConnochie, from Juneau, was in charge here.  The new map, she said, was in response to testimony last week in Juneau.  Haines folks said they wanted to be connected to downtown Juneau, not the Mendenhall Valley.  She did that.  She also had Prince of Wales Island whole.  Deviations were a problem here.  
  7. Deviations - attorney White said that the very low deviations in Calista and AFFER plans were good, but that there was room to increase deviations a little if they can justify that with other considerations, such as whole Boroughs or Socio-Economic Integration (SEI)
All the Board members were there except Marie Green.  They will reconvene at 3pm.  You can listen in at akl.tv.


Here are my very rough notes.  I'm in LA and so I listened in via the audioconference online.  There is also a call in number.  The Calista Option 4 Map is below and you can get a higher resolution copy here.  


Get higher res PDF here.



Here are my rough notes of the meeting.  I got in about ten minutes after the scheduled starting time.  Beware, I got what I could, but there are a few gaps and probably things I misheard.  ???? means it wasn't clear to me.  I've added some headings to show where they started a new topic.  Though they do talk about different regions throughout as other regions can be impacted by what they are doing with the region they are working on. 

KENAI BOROUGH
 
10:12 
Eric:  when you take Tyonek, drops ??? , you have to go to Chenega to balance it out,  38 is slightly low, so I grabbed Newtok into 38. 
Calista Option 4 stopped at Crooked Creek, I had to go into Good News Bay, then the Domino effect sends 38 slightly over. 
Taking Tyonek out of Aleutians causes domino effect.
Looked at original Calista 4 plan, they’d gone to end of the road system to get those type deviations.  Only about 1200 people on Kenai borrow off the road system and they have an excess of 2000.  Fox River East End Road. 
I’m the fill colors, the red overlay is Calista Option 4.
Torgerson: Why Fox River?
Eric:  To take this out of the road system.  Tail end of East End Road.  I reconfigured their Kenai slightly,  They had Funny River over here, but that’s Sterling.  Just moving around, all these districts overpopulated, can’t entirely get rid of the excess ?? Kodiak district. 
White:  Three complete districts in Kenai Borough, clear out those off the road system and the spread the excess among the three?
Eric:  Yes.
Torgerson: Discussions with Marie, you guys worked with Good News Bay?
McConnochie:  she preferred to have it.  Traditional Calista boundaries. 
Torgerson: In Calista?
McConnochie:  Yes,  When we had to split the Chain, not happy.
Torgerson:  You have 37?
Eric:  in Calista area,
Torgerson: What about Newtok?
Eric:  Remember they were closely related with Yukon River.  They’re all Calista.  This is all Calista area.   . . . .
[In response to Q from Torgerson )It would completely change, you would take 4000 out of Valdez, South Anchorage, this would have to be redone.
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  Can you go back to Kenai?

KENAI, BUT RUNNING INTO ANCHORAGE AND MATSU ISSUES

Eric:  Anchorage has excess population about 7,746, that’s 43% of a district.  If you added it to the Kenai excess, then you’d have to grab Valdez plus part of Copper River Basin or Cordova. 
PeggyAnn McConnochie: As I remember the Calista plan didn’t split Matsu more than once?
Eric:  Grabs about 400 people around Knik River.  John asked me not to split Matsu.  ??? and a few changes i Matsu to even out the population.  Matsu, for five districts, remainder of 200? people.  They can be spread among five districts.  Kenai not into Anchorage and Matsu not split at all, that means Anchorage 7000 excess has to go somewhere.  Taken 500 out of Knik, means you have to make some changes up along Alaska highway.  Their Calista Option 4 split at Ft. Greely.  I moved Dot Lake back in, hadn’t quite finished. 
1-6 along with District 10 are about 500 people short of ideal for all seven, slightly,  Spread 500 people among seven districts.
Their original boundary goes to S boundary of City of Delta Junction.  Then down the Alaskan Highway. 
Torgerson:  Back to Matsu or Anchorage?  Valdez????  
Eric:  Eklutna, Knik Road, Knik Glacier, Lake george area.
Torgerson:  Takes care of issue SC was on, but I still have questions about SEI.
Eric:  To eastern, same as Calista 4, eastern boundary of Matsu Borough. 
10:26
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  8 and 10 ?? Knik?
Eric: Then you’d have to change the Valley a little? 
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  How many in that section of Knik Arm? 
Eric:  500
Torgerson: mmmm
PeggyAnn McConnochie:
Eric:  Whittier too is in there.
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  how many people where 10 ...Anchorage?
Eric:  7000 where all the Anchorage excess goes.  Has to go somewhere. 
White?:  Where’s the line drawn, for ten, the border?
Eric:  Basically, edge of state park, cut thru Chugiak.
Torgerson:  Deviations of 28?
Eric:  Negative
Torgerson:  Court ruled for Valdez, Whittier and Girdwood?
White:  Yes, court found them SEIntegrated.  Board take a hard look, limited themselves by saying they couldn’t combine Matsu and Anchorage, had to do Valdez.  Both had .4 excess, can’t combine them, proportionality.  SC said wrong.  On remand, board changed concept and created Richardson Highway district. 
Torgerson:  I think we can make the case for Valdez.  There’s a sweet spot there where people just go north, to Fairbanks  . . .Paxton, ????,
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  ????
Torgerson:  I think we can make the case for coming into Anchorage, Whittier????
White:  Ahtna Corporation, but I understand what you’re talking about pushing north.
Brodie:  Mr. Chairman, a hard one to balance, transportation has changed a bit, taken urban people and moved them clear to coastal areas, and these are all road people, to say they aren’t SEI is pretty weak today, in today’s environment, weak argument that the road district people wouldn’t match up.
Torgerson: You say they are SEI because of the road system connection.
Brodie:  I would think so.
Torgerson:  This dead space doesn’t bother you?
Brodie:  There is a dead space in many districts
Torgerson:  PeggyAnn, what is your though?
Holm:  We have to decide to divide Matsu, or go over the mountains.  We have cases of water being the connector and mountains.  This is not Anchorage, but close.  Within 200 miles.  Delta is a long way from Fairbanks too, but have SEI connection to Fairbanks. But also to Anchorage.  Hard to make blanket statements.
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  I kind of have a problem with that.  Alaska is a ?? state.  Valdez and small towns, not in my mind the right way to go.  I’d rather go to Matsu than Valdez Anchorage.
Torgerson: Michael can you defend us as it is?
Coming down to two competing, one that says shouldn’t divide borough versus defines SEI, I don’t disagree with what Bob said, there is certainly a connection,  highway corridor.
Holm:  What is the connection between ??? and Kotzebue?  We have places that aren’t connection, but they have some theoretical connection.  We have to make the connection.
White:  Can I defend it?  Of course I can defend.  There is sufficient evidence in the ?? it works.  It was basically an Ahtna region except Cantwell, but that’s an anomaly from Native perspective.  But then going up, just for population purposes, Greely, Dot Lake, ??Village, does the need for population outweigh?  Balancing act.  Yellow portion in Eric’s how many people there?
Eric:  Zero, boundary of Ft Greely
…. Richardson is, the line, the Alaska ????
??:  What’s the deviation on 6?
Eric:  Low as well.  1-6 plus 10 have about 500 people short of ideal district, they have to be spread.
White:  Extra people in Anchorage.  Can you shorten 10 so it doesn’t go so far north.
Eric:  500 out of Matsu, changed Calista’s boundary there.
Torgerson:  I want to see what it looks like, if moving people, SEI, cut across Matsu not that big a deal.
White:  How many in Ft. Greely . . . .
Brodie:  16?
Torgerson:  Eric said 500 people
Brodie:  Chairman if we zoom out, NW a little, put villages from Wiseman down to Hughes, then becomes pretty much original, as in the ?? plan, then put Huslia in 39, that’s what PeggyAnn and I were playing with yesterday.  And 6 is pretty healthy.  Puts the villages back together.
Holm?  Deviations go
Brodie:  6 is good.  40 goes back to our Proclamation Plan.
Eric:  Ft. Greely 530, Dot Lake 13, Dry Creek 94, Dot Lake Village 62
Torgerson:  700 people, only taking Anchorage excess?
Eric:  7,746 people, rest of Anchorage deviations really low, about 7000.
Torgerson:  Need to keep them low, can look at that later on. 
White:  Start getting into the Fairbanks area, have to look very carefully.  Would be more comfortable if they weren’t in 10.  Not claiming no SEI, but fair to say those areas closer to Fairbanks than to Anchorage.
Holm:  Are you intimating that donut should occur?
White:  Difference between donut hole in the past and here.  Not just one city being isolated. 
Holm:  Testimony a couple of years ago that Delta Junction and ?? were not connected.  But Dot Lake and Village of Dot Lake should belong in 6.  Healy? Lake in there.  You’re going to split it some place, if highway is the corridor, then the proper place.  Not enough people there to make deviation problems.What about that piece there?  Any population there?  That whole piece could be connected to anybody?  The bombing range?
White:  Boundary of FT. Greely?
Eric: boundary of the base
Holm:  Did we make a choice that we’re going to split Wasilla or Knik to Valdez?
Torgerson:  That’s all we’ve been presented with.  Still puts Northern Anchorage and Valdez and Richardson Highway.  We could take Dot Lake and maybe, everything south of the highway, maybe a little more defensible than going across the highway.  Out of ten into 6.  That would tighten that deviation a bit.
Eric:  Largest deviation somewhere up north.
White:  Change Dot Lake, Creek? 
……….
10:53
Brodie:  Just have to set in our mind priority:  Maintain Matsu that has exactly 5 boroughs.  We’ve taken excess from Fairbanks and now we have excess in Anchorage that’s taken about the same.  All sophisticated people with power and water, so what is the difference?  Distance or SEI?????
Torgerson:  40 people right?
Eric:  Same as Calista.
[lots of quiet or couple of words here and there]
10:57
White:  Red is borough boundary?
Eric:  No, red is Calista boundary, Borough boundary is here.
Torgerson: I like the deviation, if Valdez, ??? should be included.
Holm:  but I’d go all the way to …..
Torgerson:  I see
[I assuming they are just moving blocks around on the map to see how the numbers work in different configurations.]
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  take out?? and make it look better.
Torgerson: We already did
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  [can’t quite hear her]
Torgerson;  Voting blocks …..???
???:  That’s a huge block
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  Take it down to meet Anchorage . . .
Brodie:  This is just minor cleanup, is there another area we can work on?
….
KODIAK
 
11:04  [lots of knocking noises but no one is talking]
Torgerson:  Making water connection from Kodiak to Kenai B 37
Brodie:  These two sections of villages are ….just put them in ? to see what happens.  Puts 40 under back to where were before.  … . . . . the extra population here.  Nelchina Ridge, Ester, College, Farmers Loop, the numbers are pretty close.  All these are less than one percent.  Difference less than ½ percent. 
Torgerson: In The blue, this side of
Brodie:  River there, this could probably change color.
white:  That block
Brodie:  Could take all this to the river.  Whenever three districts come together, it’s always awkward.
Torgerson:  you just raised the deviation on 40, then took a little out of Fairbanks
Brodie:  On the edge, so these will all be close.  heard yesterday the ??? - these two were happy to be together and these two, and happy to be in 40.  Back in Yukon, Kuyokuk.
Torgerson;  TCC ????   

DEVIATION VERSUS OTHER FACTORS  But still in Fairbanks discussion

White:  As long as in the tolerance,under the ten percent maximum, made effort.  That would be a reason to have the deviation increase a bit.  Someone comes in and said we did under one and we are three, then you could say we balanced it with SEI.  If it were ten would be different.
Holm??:  I liked what Mr. Begich said about clusters of districts.  Just want to be sure we don’t run afoul.  If justification to have higher deviation than could be achieved without violating the constitution in other places.  But could also raise the deviation, but still get these together.  I understand it’s the boards decision.
White:  Deviation courts have said is a laudable goal,
Holm:  But this is not a constitutional requirement to move Wiseman
White:  by making those moves you are focusing on SEI,  saying we could get a lower deviation and still constitutional, but this is better SEI
???:  good work
Torgerson:  That was a minus 4 right?
Brodie:  Could always??? Arctic Village, or put ??? back.  Apparently [mumble]
Torgerson:  OK, just taking notes, Mary’s taking care of me.  Making note of these so we can come back and make our votes.
Torgerson:  Personally willing to gamble with deviation for reasons of SEI, trying to do what we can for the area.
Holm:  We looked at Native villages as well and Doyon map.
Brodie:
Torgerson:  Let me ask Mike about Kenai.  ??? was good.  Not taking Nanwalek,  You are making a connection by water, so you’re thoughts making connections by water.
White:  Given trial court ruling last time, a little pause to jump from Kodiak over there, ??? Kenai.
Torgerson:  Cook Inlet to 37 ok?
White:  ok
Kodiak to
Torgerson:  Kodiak is an island, has to cross water.  A little hesitation tying in lower part of Seward.  Now jumping from Kodiak to Cordova and Kenai Peninsula west.
White:  Kenai Pen crosses water anyway, but looking at Eric’s map I like better than crossing over water.  Kenai breached once or twice - over land.
Torgerson:  Jump over water, it’s still in borough boundary.  OK
White:  but the jump from Kodiak across… more troubling
Torgerson:  several reason
1.  has to go somewhere
2  has to make a water connection somewhere
3.  no evaluating distance of water is bad.  40, 50 170 miles?
White:  Court said Aleutian to Bethel too much.  Some risk court would say too much.
torgerson:  Didn’t have to connect that way.  Kodiak has no other option but to cross water.  On the Chain you could use the rest of the chain.
White:  Kodiak is connected to mainland.  Do you have to go to nearest water contiguity.  Borough isn’t there??
Holm:  getting more comfortable going over water.
Going 32, 37, 31.  Kodiak may be land locked. 
Torgerson:  This is now this distance, come across that way and connect.  I don’t know, we need to think about.  Is that another of these tradeoffs.  You can argue it’s contiguous, but not as clean as we’d like to see.  Where else Bob?

FAIRBANKS

Brodie:  A little bit in Fairbanks. 
Torgerson:  Jim you want to look at that? 
HOlm:  I took boundary of Fairbanks borough.  Numbering not quite right, I renumbered districts.  took Ester area we had trouble with.  I wrapped it slightly over Fairbanks.  The City of Fairbanks is totally inclusive within the boundaries of Fairbanks.  Not one ounce outside.  The deviations here are one is -28 folks, pretty smooth.  Calista had a piece up here and I put it back into 4 and moved 4 out to Farmers Loop so this whole piece is back together.  This has been back before.  Only had to cross Chena HS a couple times for population.
Moved ??? south to borough line.  No one there.  I needed a few extra folks and I went up here.  I don’t like the look of that, but this is a voting block and there’s no way to get rid of that.  this little handle here.  If you click off on this it goes all to hear.
White:  That’s all one voting block? 
Holm:  5 right now is plus 73 folks.  i can take these folks out of here, but I think it makes a little problem. 
White:  What do you call it?
Holm:  Southwest of Ft. Wainwright.  This is city of Fairbanks.  took all the excess of 1 and put them in 2.  I put them here.  Took pipeline corridor has the basis for three, and all these folks live on B? road are included.  Kept integrity of North Pole City, then went to Eilson.
Torgerson:  Eileson is in 6.
Holm:  Yes, to eilson boundary.  Like Calista, shouldn’t shed to the West, so to SW. 
Torgerson:  You didn’t push population down into 6?
Holm:  Wiseman, may have to have some other changes.  Eliot Highway.
White:  Can you zoom in on 1 and 2.
Little blue spot?
Holm:  Outside the city limits.
White:  Outside city limits already in 2
Holm;  Moved it once, but didn’t make any sense.
Torgerson:  looks a little odd both ways
Holm:  Eric, make me look good.
We’re looking at ??? folks in there.  quite a few folk.  This is ???
White:  Can you put that area into 2?
Holm:  I can go either way.
Torgerson:  Looking earlier, peeking over your shoulder, a few things could be adjusted, one of the best justifications is city boundaries.
Holm:  Have to take them out of  . .
Torgerson:  Can you work on that this afternoon.  Up to you . . .
Holm:  I don’t see any justification for that.  On City Boundaries
Torgerson:  Disagree, there has to be a city boundary somewhere
White:  You go out of boundaries for 2
Holm;  That’s why we went to the west . .
Torgerson:  Not straight across anyway.  there’s a lot of little lack of better word, toes, where the boundaries  . . .
Holm:  that’s above the RR tracks.  Adding more people to 2.  City of Fairbanks has two seats plus a little bit to the west.  And 4 wraps around Fairbanks.  Fairbanks really has four.
Torgerson:  Eastern boundary, NE
Holm  NE boundary is the river. 
Torgerson:  We used to have pointers, but can’t afford it.  Looks like squared up a bit.
Holm:  Calista had it squared with this little chunk but it wan’t in the city so I put it back
Torgerson:  I’m talking about this one here.
Holm:  Something gets goofy right away.  problem with thee voting block.  Grab one and it’s different from what you wanted to do.
Isabella Creek.  Never heard of it.  All the way around.  that’s theoretically????
11:39
Holm:  If you get 4 and 5. 
Torgerson:  Questions for Jim?  None?  PeggyAnn  Southeast
PeggyAnn McConnochie:
Torgerson:  When you look at
Holm:  I moved that out
Torgerson: When I look at the other three, looks kind of uniform.  Treats all the population outside of Fairbanks the same. 
Holm:  We know the outside boundaries of 6 anyway
Torgerson:  I thought Bob’s looked good, his Fairbanks was similar to yours too?
Holm:  He wrapped the other way.  He took Chena Ridge and Ester all the way down, just the reverse. 
Torgerson:  Deviation of 5.97 with the 4.09
Holm:  Highest deviation I had  . . District 40? 
Torgerson: -4.09 and a +1.88
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  There got it
Torgerson:  Alright.    

SOUTHEAST
  
PeggyAnn McConnochie:
11:47  Here’s my SE map.  Also note deviation have problems with population are a little higher.  Much like Eric - Ketch with Wrangell, New entire Petersburg, Hoonah, Pelican.
Downtown Juneau to Haines and Skagway, and downtown Juneau to Mendenall Valley.
Holm:  What’s south? 
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  Some maps across to Hydaburg or Craig.  Craig hard to carve out , so I left Ketch borough whole with Metlakatla.  Taking in all the testimony.  Wrangell Mayor wanted to be with Ketch.  P of Wales whole.  Then, Sitka all together. 
Downtown  Juneau with Haines, Skagway.  Haines had more in common with downtown Juneau than they do with Mendenhall valley.  Deviations not great.
Holm:  Talking about 35
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  35 great, but 33 is awful
White:  P of Wales not a city.  Testimony ?
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  P of Wales Island similar SEI that’s why they wanted to be together.
Torgerson??White?:  How many in Hydaburg?
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  That’s all Prince of Wales Island, yeah.
11:52
480
Torgerson;  all inclusive there?
PeggyAnn McConnochie;  yeah the whole area.  some along this area here
If that’s more important that keeping P of Wales whole, yea.
Torgerson:  I remember something about Metlakatla and wanting to be together.  Our deviation.  Plus3 getting into, not dangerous area, but . .
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  yes, higher.  Given the north stuff, rather split Prince of Wales Island. 
Douglas Island, break here, Steady point, airport is right here.  You see it’s Thunder Mt. straight down toward the glacier, to top of douglas Island, majority of Mendenhall here to borough line, right there.  Burners bay and Out The road. 
Torgerson:  Follow Juneau testimony?
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  exactly
Torgerson:  We are doing that for for ferry system  Haines said if they have to be connected to a districted, felt more connected to downtown Juneau or south Juneau as they call it, than north Juneau.
Torgerson:  water connection?
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  Juneau has lots of water
Torgerson:  didn’t really hear from Juneau this time. 
White:  District 36, no commercial marine activity?
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  everything has marine activity.  Cruise ships come into downtown Juneau and to Skagway and Haines.  Downtown Juneau feels like a little city, the Capitol, main tourism area in downtown.  We have two major ports.
White:  I understand, but commercial ports?
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  Auk Bay and downtown Juneau, Taku main processor in downtown Juneau. 

Torgerson:  looking at Hydaburg, clean that up to get our deviation down. Any other questions on SE.
White:  this changed from our A based on testimony we received since? 
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  correct
Torgerson:  OK, thank you. Eric, anything else?  We’ll go off record and probably come back at 3.  Give people time to go for lunch and go over things.  Three major areas to look at:
Kenai Borough split
Matsu-Richardson highway, great conversation this morning.  Feel a little more comfortable with Richardson into Anchorage
Fairbanks, look at some of those iterations in Fairbanks
come back t 3 and see where we are.

No votes until tomorrow when Marie is here.  Anything?
White:  Before you draw, we found the maps from Hickel district?  We can have copies made for people.  Basically what you have in the district.  District contained Palmer and PWS communities, included Valdez, Cordova, Whittier, and two villages.  Here’s the actual map that was struck down.  Palmer was agricultural, others fishing.
Here’s 1990, Hickel case.  Some pleadings from that time with arguments that were made.
Torgerson:  Your opinion, the Richardson H with north Anchorage is totally different.  PWS just to Valdez, Ahtna,  Since ???
White:  Court has said it’s fine.  Biggest issue is the further north you go, the less connection you’ll have.  If you look at this, 28 too, Big Delta to Glen Allen this way.
We have these maps and you can look at them and pleadings, here for your perusal.
Torgerson:  12:07, recessed until 3pm

Bike Break Down To Venice Pier

I moved along the various tasks I'm pursuing hoping to make things easier for my mom, I moved into her room to listen to the Redistricting Board meeting, blogged it, and then got out the bike for a ride down to Venice Beach.

It was Friday after July 4, the weather was comfortable - partly sunny, in the high 60s I'd guess - and there were lots of folks on the Venice Boardwalk.  I'm cheating a little here, this first picture I took the other day - it's at Venice Beach at the end of Rose Street.  These are the beaches I grew up at, but now I realize how big the sandy area is.  You can just barely see a strip of blue water between the sand and the clouds


There's the 'boardwalk' - not sure why it's called that because it's asphalt, not boards, and then  there's a grassy area, a bike path, and finally the sand.  And the sand from the beach is slowly taking over the bike path.    Here are some Venice police with their rides on the grassy part.



LAPD's website explains the Mounted Unit:

"The full-time Mounted Platoon was established in 1987 as a component of the elite Metropolitan Division and is currently composed of 35 full-time sworn police personnel consisting of 1 Lieutenant, 4 Sergeants and 30 Police Officers. City funds were allocated for the purchase of 40 horses to be used by the officers during the performance of their field duties. Also purchased through funds donated by the Ahmanson Foundation were a fleet of 8 trucks and trailers to transport the officers and their mounts to the various details, and a state-of-the-art police equestrian center appropriately named "The Ahmanson Equestrian Facility."

Their basic duties are:
  • demonstrations
  • crowd management
  • crime suppression





A little further up I stopped at the Skate plaza to watch folks do crazy things, mostly without helmets.  

Made me think about the Redistricting Board. 














Since my cell reception isn't too good at my mom's, I made a few calls from here and a little further down at the pier.


Surfers, from the Venice Pier


Looking south from the pier, here's a family enjoying the sun.  


Friday, July 05, 2013

Redistricting Board Last Half Hour Pretty Mundane



The Board had adjourned for 90 minutes and was scheduled to return at 3:30pm. I tried at 3:30 and there was no sound.  I did a few things and tried again in ten minutes and caught them midstream.

They’ve been playing with maps and they are basically just checking what they can and can’t do. Moving census blocks around to make better looking maps (no weird justs or fingers).  In some cases it makes no difference at all because there is no population in the block, it just looks better one way than the other.   Brodie was looking at Kenai.  Marie Green won't be there Saturday and Chair Torgerson said they wouldn't vote on options without the whole Board.


What's been interesting this week is the close alignment of the Calista and AFFER plans. Today, Randy Ruedrich came in with a plan that made some minor changes that made it even closer to Calista's. And as my notes of the end of the afternoon shows, Board member McConnochie, who, with Marie Green were the Native district specialists last time around, sounds impressed Calista's Native districts.

These are rough notes of the meeting, rely on them at your own risk. 

3:43pm  PeggyAnn McConnochie:  . . .see how Calista had organized areas, comparing groupings to testimony, they’ve done a phenomenal job making sure groupings were intact.
Holm:  Difficulty what we call 38 and marry AFFER’s ideas somewhat with Calista’s.  You have to make the connection down with the Matsu down to Anchorage to make that work.  Hard to take each of those Census blocks and pairing them down without under populating the other side.  I’m not there yet but working on it.
Brodie:  waiting - [I guess for the computer]  Started with 32 out of road system of Homer, Seldovia, etc.  Not Whittier, Cordova and Yakutat.  Kept out of road system of Borough, just the isolated roads.  Not entirely comfortable with this number yet.  Then into Kenai area, got 4-500 extra people and played with this border to even out 3?, 31.  Started looking at Fairbanks and here, if you [pause] my computer thinks for a long time.  This district 4 had ?? river.  lot of people didn’t seem practical, seemed they should stay in 3.  You had 3 districts coming together in odd combination, back to one and 3 and moved population around in here.  ?? River - I put these guys back into 1 and these into 3.  Just making a nicer picture.  Just changed a couple on the top here.  I don’t think they’re meant for ????.  Moved this over a bit, just for something to do.  Keeping 4 on the south side of the Tanana.  I didn’t change city boundary at all or the rest inside.  This lower part.  I tried to play with SE.  I don’t know if it will be possible.  Have to split Prince of Wales no matter what.  Dropped Wrangell and stuck with Petersburg and Sitka, still too many people left on the island to make a clean break.  Had it close.  Got to break it anyway if take in Wrangell.  Craig either in Petersburg and Wrangell or with Ketchikan.  Don’t know where Craig has closer ties.
Torgerson: Yours traded Craig for Wrangell, left Prince of Wales intact.
Eric:  yes, SEI group.  Mayor of Wrangell said fine to be with Ketchikan, testimony from two years ago. 
Brodie:  Just trying to see if could do this. 
Torgerson:  Still breaking Kenai Borough twice?
Brodie:  Hadn’t played with that.  If boundaries are good between these two regions, if you give Tyonek back - 500 people -
Torgerson:  If split it twice have to justify.
Brodie:  Even now 37 is ??? short.  If take this back, 500, be six percent under. 29, 30, and 31 are all over anyway.  If everything went back to Kenai B it would be about 5% over in each district. 
Torgerson:  Census block with 30 people in it.
Brodie:  Ugly block, goes all the way up here.  Tried it once and it looked bad.  I don’t know where those 30 people live in that block.  Closer to Seward? 
Torgerson:  We figured Day Harbor.
Brodie:  Ugly picture around Seward.
PeggyAnn McConnochie: I think it looks better like that. 
Torgerson:  Jumps a little bit across,
???:  Not sure we do
Torgerson:  Anyone else?
Brodie:  Conceivably, have to look at the numbers, although D32 slightly under, could give all of this to that one, 37, then only splitting it once, but then 32 3 or 4% under.  Connected by water like Gambell is.  Haven’t given us an opinion on how we do an island. 
Green:  Testimony from anyone there?
Torgerson:  OK, anything else?  Jim you’ll continue on your piece Fairbanks way.  Bob you’ll continue on your connections.  You won’t be here tomorrow (Marie) back Sunday. 
You’re ok?
Green:  Yes.
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  I have no idea ????? as close in Fairbanks as we’re going to get.  I don’t -
Green:  39, 38, 37 - 40, 39, 38, 37.  Should we wait. 
Torgerson: You don’t think any of those are in play.  Only maybe Fairbanks then we have the two options of AFFER and Calista 4, everything else is the same.  Give Eric not divide the Borough twice.  I’d rather wait until Sunday to bring it all together.  If as Bob says, take Tyonek and move it to the west.  Can we make some facts findings about why we’re delaying.  May be a magic bullet.
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  I like 38-40.  We should all be aware it is an incredibly delicate balance and can’t compromise how we do it.
Torgerson: I don’t disagree.  But if we move Tyonek, we ??? the deviation.
OK, then Eric you and I will hook up on what we want to do tonight.
Adjourn today and come back in at 10 tomorrow morning.  Agree on stuff and then work session.  Miss Green won’t be here tomorrow so don’t want to adopt anything til we have all five members.  38, 39 ,and 40 about as good as anyone can do.
Adjourn at 4:03 and reconvene at 10am. 

We are adjourned. 

Board Gets Court Order For Schedule, Discusses Deviation and Section 2 of VRA, Then Adjourns

Again, these are rough notes.  I put some headers in to help you find the points in the title.  Don't consider these more than a guide - lots of missing words and paraphrasing. 

1:35pm Board reopens meeting

Torgerson:  Took 35 minute break, not ten.

Look at some plans from last week and then Board members can open own computers and start working.
Start with AFFER map.  Trial court order just came turn to Mr. White.  We were being challenged on not having a deadline to adopt the final map.

COURT ORDER ON BOARD SCHEDULE

White:  Order from Judge McConahay, July 5.  Order short. On Riley motion to establish deadline.  Pointed out they said they failed, something about Shelby County, don't dispute how it affects Alaska.  Neither court or Board submitted plan.

It shall propose a schedule within five days

I read that to say Board has to have a schedule by next Friday.  Something the Board should think about and consider.  No indication what timeline is required, might help a bit with someone ???? Board can think about it and have formal schedule adopted prior to next week.

Torgerson:  REasoning?  Still slow, to speed Board up? 
We'll go back to Eric, AFFER overlay with Calista 4
Marie:  Can't hear.

Eric:  AFFER 2.1 - Pastel Colors,  Red Outline is Calista Option 4.

White:  I think we might have confusion here.
Torgerson:  What are you confused about?
Eric:  Pastel Color AFFER 2.1 turned in this morning.  Red Outline is Calista Option 4.  I also have Calista Option 2.5 if you want to look at that.
Torgerson:  We might
McConnochie:  Can you take the numbers off?

Lots of nothing.

Torgerson:  Can you zoom in on Matsu?  Brings Valdez.  2.1 comes down.
White:  AFFER 2.1  ???

1:53pm I wasn't listening too carefully, but now they are talking about members playing with maps and taking a 90 minute break

Green:  [Can't hear well enough - they moved mike]
Torgerson:  you two will work together on SE.  Mr. Holm on Kenai???  Healthy to have Mr. White talk about deviations again.  I got lost about best deviation and findings that we can go.  If another constitutional need, deviation might not be that important.

DEVIATIONS CLARIFICATION FROM WHITE

White:  I would interpret the teachings of our SC, that we no longer need to comply with Section 5 of the act.  The only way was to underpopulate the Native districts to get districts effective.  it's been shown that maps can be drawn with extremely low deviations.  there may be some problems.  You don't need to have the lowest possible deviations if making changes to improve SEI, compactNess or contiguity.  Balancing act.  Do I think ok to have 9.6?  Probably not.  But if you have a good justification, maybe.  If going from 1.2 to 5% don't think a problem unless those deviations are in urban areas.  Given relatively larger populations and because Boroughs are by law SEI, so you have to get those deviations as low as possible.  But according to trial court, deviations aren't everything.  If more compact or more SEI, I think the higher deviations ok.  US Supreme Court gave 10% safe harbor, but Alaska court will look.
Brodie:  I appreciate that interpretation.  Now we don't have Native districts and non-Native districts, now we have Alaskan districts, rural and urban.  Need to take into consideration their unique issues.

SECTION 2 OF VRA STILL IN FORCE

White:  Section 2 of the VRA still applies and we do have to comply with that, doesn't have impact of discriminating against natives.  US Supreme Court, if protected minority group doesn't 50% plus in a district.  We had districts under 50% that were not under 50%.  37 was not over 50%.  You could not draw it to make it to be 50% plus.  Under section 2, that district wouldn't count.  Need to make up majority in order to qualify for Section 2 protection.
Torgerson:  How do you propose we make a reocrd of higher deviation.
White:  Do what we did last time, when we make those decisions, we do written findings as we did last time of how the Board makes its decisions.
Torgerson:  Stand in recess until 3:30.  Should I go off the teleconference and back on.  Call back in at 3:30.  At that we are at recess. 


[I'm listening in via AKL.tv from Los Angeles]

Redistricting Board Meeting - Calista and AFFER and McKinnon Discuss Their Maps

[I'm listening to the Board online from LA, this is long.  I tried to summarize briefly after this note, then my very rough notes as I listened.]

Overview: 

  • Board attorney White went over definitions of Socio-Economic Integration (SEI).  Seemed to be addressing last week's testimony from Cooper Landing (that North Kenai was not connected to South Anchorage) and Gazewood & Weiner testimony (that rural Alaska may be connected to Fairbanks, but had no connection to Ester).  Citing Court rulings that if Kenai is connected to Anchorage in general, then N Kenai could be connected to S Anchorage. 
There was a request to winnow down the many plans, though Board member Brodie said there were good parts of maps that otherwise were not good that might be useful.  They surmised that the latest maps of Calista and AFFER would be all they needed.  Then had them come to the table to explain where they were. 
  • Calista had two maps.  Final Best plan is Calista Option 4 but if the Board was going to split Matsu two ways, then Calista Option 2 Revised.
  • AFFER - New map submitted this morning at 9am, Board didn't have it.  Ruedrich went through the whole state.  Said mostly similar to Calista but different with Matsu double split and some Fairbanks, but mostly like Calista. 
  • McKinnon - private citizen - deviation 9.6, but keeps all ANCSA Regional Corps intact and all Boroughs except Fairbanks and Anchorage intact.  
 Also some discussion of "Brave New World" after Shelby County v Holder decision that low deviation is now much more important than before.



Here are the very rough notes.  Don't quote, but use to get a sense of what happened.  Lots missing or paraphrased. 

ALASKA REDISTRICTING BOARD MEETING
411 W 4th Avenue, Suite 302
Anchorage, AK 99501
Phone:
907-269 -7402

JULY 5, 2013 FRIDAY
11:00 AM
Anchorage office
AGENDA
11:00 AM

11:00am - I can hear the Board, but clearly the meeting hasn't begun.
Brodie - summer weather in here
noises

1. Call to Order
Torgerson:  Call to order.  Five after 11.

  
2. Roll Call of Members
Roll call - all members present
3.Approval of Agenda  - approved
4.Discussion of Social-Economic Integration
White:  Compact and contiguity clear.  Go over SEI - Constitution
where people work together, ?? together, earn their living together.  Can't be defined with math precision.  Can be figured.  Economic unit inhabited by people.
Courts have said - proof of actual interaction and interconnectedness more than mere homogeneity.  Other things;  common interests in ??;  transportation, ferry, Native characteristics, geographical proximity, ferry.  services hub.  Court has said 'relative' not minimal, but some flexibility, given the sheer size geographically.
One of the issues raised in ???, idea of how to measure SEI, when have to combine two different areas - like Kenai and Anchorage.  Court has said they are.  In Kenai case in late 80s.  combined N Kenai with Anchorage - challenged.  No connectedness with N Kenai and South Anchorage - maybe with Anchorage, but not S Anchorage.  Court clear, don't look at specific areas, but can look - let me get exact wording:  will be upheld if reasonable not arbitrary.  Previously upheld comparison.  .  . Issue here whether interaction with hd7 and not just n Kenai, and surrounding areas as well.  Kenai as a whole and Anchorage as a whole.  Since then no dispute, Kenai and Anchorage a clearly SEI.  Not just N K and SA, but surrounding area.
Questions?
Torgerson:  No questions for Mr. White?  Anything else?
PeggyAnn McConnochi:  If people in N Kenai go to Dr. in S Anchorage?  Some indication.  But if go to Dr. in N Anchorage or Airport not in S Anchorage, still there.
Sufficient of N Kenai and S Anchorage results from interaction with Anchorage.  . . .Actual is minimal, but nexus between Kenai and Anchorage.  That nexus is what's important, not the two areas of N. Kenai and S. Anchorage.
Same argument was raised last in 2001 - Valdez challenged S anchorage SEI, trial level upheld.  SEI not tied just to S Anchorage area, but Anchorage-Valdez nexus.
Torgerson:  Other Questions.  Alright.  Brings us to 4 Discussion of draft plans.
5.Discussion of draft plans
McConnochie:  Is there  a way to reduce the number of plans?
Brodie:  difficult in that one plan treats one part of the state better, but we don't like another part.  Looks like it will be a mix and match.
Green:  Thank you for raising that.  It would be helpful to focus ?? limited time we have, throughout our hearing this has been mentioned - why we have so many maps.
 Holm:  Maybe we should just go thru the options, like Calista 1-4, if offering all four maybe we should assume 4 is the latest and look at that and remove the others.  Same with Board.  We have ABCDEF and I don't know which we think 2 or 3 most appropriate.  Way to eliminate some of those.  Then Gazewood & Weiner and AFFER and Gateway and that gets us down to 5 or 6 and work from there.
Brodie, Hard.  Some have attractive small portions tho the rest we don't want.  So take a look at start with A and see if there is a portion of that, or knock out the whole plan.  If we want to do that, I'm willing to knock out C the one I drew.  Things I would change, particularly N. Slope drawn to get numbers even.  Not knocking out SE portion or city portions. . . .
McConnochie.  Since four from Calista.  Not clear, hard to pull map off the computer.

 Torgerson :  Would you like to hear from Calista to see what they intend.  Not planning to open hearings again, but . .  One filed 21st which was our deadline for filing maps.  AFFER also because they have 3 or 4 plans.  Let me take a small break and we can pull up table and let people talk.

11:25am Rustling of papers, some talking, waiting for Brodie to return from bathroom
11:27am  Back to order, invite Marcia Davis and Tom Begich
??:  We got another this morning?
Davis:  Just Southeast . . .
Torgerson :  We need another mike, bring that table to center.  Teleconference mics.
My name is Marcia Davis - Calista general counsel
My name is Tom Begich - consultant to Calista
Davis:  to avoid confusion start with punchline.  Where we stand today, we've been listening to testimony, evolving like the Board, based on testimony and concerns and knowledge we acquired, Our final best plan is Calista Option 4, there is another SE that we sent over today.  Meets our ANCSA corporation need, political boundaries to max extent possible.  Considered that AFFER was pushing double split of Matsu, not sure, we wanted to have  double split that allowed the Native interests.  That's our option - changes to Native areas - Shish to Bering Strait and Arcti Village to 39, needed ot move Koyukuk??  If Board goes to dobule shift in Matsu want to be prepared. 
Either Calista option 4 with whatever SE  or Calista 2 Revised
Begich:  ???  Opiton 2 one worked with AFFER group  - disagreement in FB and some Senate pairings.  essentially the same of 36 of 40 house district. 
Marcia:Just to respect to house districts, but not senate pairings.
PAM repeat
Tom Begich:  If Board does double Matsu split - our 2 revised matches AFFER close, they have Juneau to Hobard Bay, assume B wants to keep hold, we honor B there.  Same split with J.  Fairbanks - AFFER aligned more moves Eilson to rural, NP different, fundamental difference pairings

Bethel 37 up into Doyon - Coastal Native and Interior - prime objection, we paired Native Interior to Interior rural/FB district.  Taken with comment that Natalie Landreth made about Coastal Natives have such strong focus on fisheries and Coastal delivery and we feel really strongly that Western Coast Natives need to stay linked in Senate pairings too.  Does real injustice, have no issues in common, tail wagging dog.  Common issues fuel delivery, transportation, shopping.  We realize that if they're contiguous good enough, but 37 doesn't touch 3?  - not contiguous.  Don't have native preclearing issue but doesn't mean we can ignore it.  They came up highway with Valdez - we linked to seven, we linked to 5.
Begich:  Ruedrich - all three of Senate seat five that FB is entitled to should be paired together. 
Davis:  Only if Board feels comfortable breaking Matsu twice,
Begich:  Very low deviations.
Brodie:  N and W Alaska same as four.
Begich:  Six is virtually identical, Delta?? together.  Don't break Matsu 2x  - then 10E has to be paired either to Matsu or Anchorage.  Easier to pair to Anchorage break - there's the break right there, incorporates 500 Matsu residents.  Maintains Chugiak district Anchroage has had and pairs it to the road district with Matsu to Valdez.  Only way to have only one Matsu break.  You can link Valdez to Anchorage - by law - and this seems to be the best way.  If break Matsu just once, this is the only way.  Tried to match lines Mayor proposed as Colligan said to follow Mayor's.  Couldn't match exactly.
Torg:  Kenai still divided twice.
Begich:  All maps take ?? out of B.  Know we have to break twice.  Tried to take Native pop in Nanwalek and to lower coastal district - Halibut Cove and Far eastern part of Homer, but not Homer.  Three fully populated borough districts (H Kena Soldotna)  Three Boroughs in Kenai . . .
Brodie:  Took Nanwalek for Native population?
Begich:  Yes.  Neither community likes to be connected to Kenai.  Driven by deviation.
Brodie:  ??? 32 along the Coast  . . .
Begich:  Blocks red and green, huge blocks make the water connection.
White:  Only contiguous by water 32 - connect across the bottom.
Begich: Could, but creates crazy angles - by Seward - no population.  Board's ability to draw straight line. 
White:  what happens to deviation if pick part of Matsu and put . .
Begich:  About 550 people - about 3%.  If you did that a wholly enclosed Matsu.  But we were shooting for low deviation.  Case law political boundaries can be reason for higher deviation.  Overall, minus to plus is 1.37%  40 goes down to -.88, still under one percent.  to .48 positive. 
Torg:  Homer group? 
Begich:  Still dealing with about 3%, but because underpopulation one and overpopulating another comes to 6%, but Board can do this.
White:  are there villages you moved into 40 where population was a factor?
Begich:  You could take Koyukuk and take back in 6 is a coherent group of village.  As long as keeping groupings together, they are comfortable.  Villages around ruby and Galena, McGrath villages together,  Relationship between Ahtna and upper Tanana, Matt Ganley also testified on that.  Short answer is, all Athabascan.  Always bring more Athabascan in, but changes deviation.  this puts all villages together but pops the deviation a bit.
Brodie: ???? North Slope hard to hear him.
Begich:  More than 3 now.  Can't speak for TCC or Doyon.  As long as groupings together they were satisfied.  Would put more Ath villages together but throw deviations out
Brodie:  Well worry about that.
Begich:  Sure, but upper Koyukuk about 700 people . .
Brodie:
Begich:  Shishmareff represented about 550 people.  Bering Straits didn't want Shish out.  The others were taken to balance Shish to Bering Straits.  Bettles addition keeps upper part together.  Start drawing the map very differently if you do that.  Letter from NWAB at this point, may speak to that. 
Holm:  I'm curious, Mr. White, how we defend SEI compatibility between Fairbanks and Barrow, Metlakatla and Barrow if that is challenged?  Concerned with SEI and with the different groups wanting to be grouped.
White:  Public testimony with what they would like to see, not always compatible with law.  Comes down to if we can move these villages here and meet their needs, but raises deviation above allowable.  1990 case called Athabascan and ?? possible combination.  30 years ago.  Might be an issue there about SEI, Marie, Marcia.
PAM;  Would like to hear from Marcia.  Marie and I did a lot of work in that area, got a lot of testimony.  Why do you feel comfortable with that.
Davis:  Working villages a long time, listened to folks, Lawyer in me plus the person having all this discussion answers:  1st US and Alaska Constitution dictates maximum deviation.  If you move off it, need to justify.  Excuse to move off deviation needed.  Presumption established.  Not unique we have Athabascan cultures intermixed in other cultures.  It exists in multiple place.  Because region so huge but sparsely populated, so necessary.  Doyon's testimony so huge that they have operated in clusters, ability to travel and communicate across every cluster impossible.  If clusters are intact, they're ok.  With that objective met here.  Then how comfortable in context of larger district.  Pipeline corridor, economic, similar lifestyle - subsistence, caribou, moose managed for subsistence.  Positive thin, when we went back, Lime Village, Calista, but they go to McGrath for shopping.  Even those Calista, has Athabascan connection.  Same with Middle Yukon villages.  Highest order - Athabascan with other Athabascan - not possible, but can honor it at cluster area. 
Holm:  I bring this up because I spent a lot of time in ?? pass and ??? river.  All their relatives are in Ft. Yukon, not North Slope.  They have the connections with the eastern Athabascan families.  Just seems as if they really don't have any connection to N Slope at all.  Hard for me to believe they can do it for SEI connections.  Just for deviations, that's my concern at this juncture. 
Davis:  One thing Board has to face.  it's a new world for you.  In past battle around VRA,  VRA said other things have to yield to VRA.  With that missing, battle more around deviations.  You definitely got hammered hard on SEI because deviations weren't the weak points.  But now those are gone and now pure hand of equal protection.
White:  Holm has good memory, Trial court from last Feb.  While the B think deviations necessary, simply said, the Board must meet low deviations. 
If that deviation caused by making more compact or SEI that will be acceptable.  Now more safe harbor at 10%.  Before only applied to Anchorage, now to most urban areas with large districts that can be shifted.  If now applied to rural areas - Davis says, this is a brave new world.  Does that mean you should have lower deviations?  If put villages there - if you feel not SEI with other part, if go from 1 to 6% probably be acceptable if making it more compact. 
Brodie:  We could carry deviation in extreme we could divide Ft. Yukon in half.  Same in urban area, go down highway and grab 3 houses across the street to get low deviations.
White:  Deviation a laudable goal, but US and Alaska SC recognize - urban and rural different standards.  In the States, given 10% leeway, even our court has allowed above 10%, but I don't think that's allowable any more.  Playing between 10 and 1, if have rational reasonable justification.  Wish we could be 1.4, but want this SEI.
Begich:  reason for grouping, don't take one or two of the villages, move them as a group.  Your comment about splitting Ft. Yukon is reason why we did this.  Maintained all the city boundaries.  North Pole for example.  Don't want to split neighborhoods.  Sadly struck down by Court ten years ago, didn't care about neighborhoods in larger area. 
????: 
Begich:  Toatal, from my head, about including Eilson, about 8500, Salcha and about 4000 to the north. . .
White:  If Board feels SEI needs, deviation in FB pretty close too.
Begich:  Yes, in urban core the better off for rural FB.  Two Rivers Road below 6c, ????
3b anywhere there, a population more closely integrated with NP,  You have options.  Begins to become rural quickly if go to Hot spring road.
Torgerson:  Thanks, Randy, you be ready  We want to eliminate some plans, you have four I believe, Calista had 5 and now down to 2.
Ruedrich:  Morning Mr. Torgerson, guess it's afternoon.  to assure you world is dynamic, we have filed another plan this morning which eliminates all the rest.  Adopts slight variations between Calista and ours, They will now be identical except for some zero blocks.  Emailed this morning about 9 o'clock.  Current version of option 2 modified slightly.  Let's talk about SE initially.

This map, we filed this am, district 33 as Calista has we have not modified in any way shape or form.  then left - Juneau north D31, intact over these many maps.  Reduced its deviation, put those people back into 32, south of the airport.  Main change is Hobart Bay area, and island ???? on in 34.  34 larger bulk visually, but doesn't change population, puts entire Petersburg in 34.  Green area bigger, southern portion of rust color go way, makes S district more compact.  Think of those 33 people west of Hydaburg - they would be better served in D33.  No people on island west of Hydaburg.  Makes a better map, but worse deviation.  If want more compact, that's the place.
Torg:  Can you back up and tell me diffs between Calista and your new one.
Ruedrich:  in SE no differences.  All I've spoken to so far.
Now lets go to Western Arctic, High Arctic.  Our map is again, virtually identical when we talked about N Inupiat district. Western Nome District, D37 and D36 identical.  Only dealing with House.  Pairings meaningless now.
Agree with Calista concept.  Had to increase size in all because no longer reason to maximize Native districts.  ?? on perimeter.  I've worked with Doyon and TCC more than other groups and I understand reason.  When they recruited for roustabouts, they recruited in those villages.  Had direct tie to their areas.  I was hesitant to take Huslia and rest of Koyukuk valley, Realized that Arctic Village didn't fit.  Matt Ganley convinced me what we did was back idea.  Koyukuk, ??, Upper Kuskokwim, all TCC sub regions, in different district.  They still work together, as we try to populate Coastal region where we run out of people if we don't take them.
PeggyAnn McConnochie:  In your talks with them . . .
Ruedrich:  I haven't talked to them but I lived there years ago, it's valid what Davis says.
White?  Senate pairings?
Ruedrich:  Tried to scrub letters but didn't work
White:  Not defending non-contiguous.
Ruedrich:  Please disregard the letters.
Back to South Kenai and other portion of the world.  Breaking boundaries is something we pay close attention to Constitution recognizing political entities.  Kenai B has been split - Hope has been taken out in past, Seldovia, often not part.  In this case, with view to bring deviations down and bring SEI into play, we have again split the Kenai B significantly.  West side in 36, historically attached to some district on West side.  took significant # of people out , sorry put in a sig number in to 35 and allowed us to drop Yakutat.  Beluga and Tyonek and Port Graham and Nanwalek, breaks the boundary in two places, is proper....  took from S kenai, Katchemak Bay, Fox River and ??? Creek to replace the surplus population and put into 35, smaller than before and put Yakutat back in.  Almost identical to Calista and I think serves Kenai well.  Single southern of Homer, Anchor River, and ??
Brodie:  Upper Katch Bay - east end road?
Ruedrich:  Some of the last ones on east are attached to road system.  Don't believe people on West . .
Brodie:  For deviation - if some can't drive to Homer, to their voting place???
Ruedrich:  I think we've done that, not sure.
Brodie:  Whittier?
Ruederich:  Surplus pop problem,  detail could be revisited.  Whittier is kind of a unique small population, definitely PWS, not Anchorage, though once were.
Holm:  36, Port Graham?
Ruedrich:  ????
?  How many people?
??: Native villages, not connected by road at all?
Ruedrich:  Seldovia not attached by road, there is a small area that is more native, but larger non-native pop in general area. 
Moving into Anchorage.  No changes, except editorial in beginning.  There were some map in 25 boundary, but eliminated we found a better way.  Some tiny tweaks unless questions.  Deviation under 1% for city.  Probably about .9.  Some toward Matsu, we reduced populations from original.  In city from 13 to 27, no net change.  Moved small population on perimeter of 27 to ???13??
Ruedrich:  Let's look at valley.  matsu.  used 2002, 2012, most rapidly growing part of state of Alaska, paired on S side surplus with Anchorage and also with highway corridor to Valdez.  Highway communities have sued i the past wanting to stay together.  Delta, etc. Valdez is not paired with Anchorage in any way shape or form.  Valdez has asked not to be paired with Anchorage.  Picks up surplus population with eastern portion of Matsu B.  From SEI those villages are like eastern villages of Matsu B.  Maybe they'll draw a better Borough i the future.
White:  Help us understand split with anchorage and Valdez.  Splits Matsu twice.  Rational? 
Ruedrich:  Find no way to put Anchorage surplus population elsewhere.  Solid boundary on Anchorage Kenai front.  Courts have looked before said this is ok.  Only think Matsu did is grow one more full district.  Did in 1990, 2000 cycle and will again in 2020 probably.  More people more SEI than the highway commuters driving from chugiak, Palmer, or Wasilla to Anchorage caught i the snow.
Brodie:  ??? Calista plan eastern border of Alaska with Anchorage and N. Kenai - treated different way of moving around the population. 
Ruedrich:  Begich reminded me their double split Matsu is identical to ours (not totally clear.)
building map starts north of Yakutat, putting Y into 35, no population north of that.  So gttig to Ahtna, combined with Indian pops of upper Tanana fit together with traditional Athabascan groups of upper and middle Yukon.  Keeping Doyon and Ahtna people to south, those four groups in D38.  You'll find we built the urban population for 38, go back to other one and expand, zoom in please, easier to see.  38 wraps around FB, villages on the West, Upper Tanana villages to the east, middle Tanana is right there in front of you.  Rural areas to the east to S. boundaries of NPole to Chatanika precinct.  Rough equal urban NSB resident and non- NSB resident.  9000 something and 9000 something.  Bringing other FB districts to truly minimum deviataion,  .4% .3% 3 people under if look at FB map. 
Takes Wainright bombing range and north.  Come up into FB, have the City of FB only in D4, eastern NSB of fB added and gives us a compact city district, which probably would share a senator - one of the litigation issues earlier,  No FB district S FB district surrounding FB.  Broken once along purple red interface.  closed to Denali on south and district 38 on this map???
White:  Help us understand, on right hand side bottom border with 38, split some population there.  Why there instead of elsewhere.
Ruedrich:  Tried to keep people live on that road system, there, together.  That's there way back to civilization.  Corridor of interest.  River.  Chatanika, more rural, and needed significant population to do this.  Respected NPole and north of there to gain population.
White:  Maps you offered i past.  No dispute, all courts said, have to go with rural-urban. In past you did from west side.  What's your change on that?
R:  Not a big difference.  People on east equally rural to people on west side.  Maybe more a matter of how you try to create d 1 and 2 that makes sense.  Northwest borough makes sense this way.  If shift further wind up with undesirable 1&2 Boundary, gives clear division for ?? Borough
White:  You made some choices but other reasonable choices?
R:  Absolutely,  I kind of like the one we had before.
PAM:  Zoom in on 3 and 4? 
R:  All thee people by def are SEI within a Borough.  Makes no difference where you draw the lines.  People have some reason to be together.  Who works and plays together.
White:  Only changes from this map in SE? 
R:  yes, I have to look, we've drawn enough maps.
White:  Thank you.
We have a map given us Friday.  Mr. McKinnon ??? is here.  Worried about timeline?
MAP?  ????
John McKinnon - presenting this as private individual.  Has overall deviation of 9.6% in FB, Anchorage, Juneau less than 1%.  Principle feature it adheres to Borough boundaries. only Anchorage and FB are broken.
White:  Not broken at all, or not more than once?
McKinnon:  Not at all.  Either whole B in one district, or if multiple seats, all seats are within the B.  Also more than others, it adheres to ANCSA boundaries.  People ask what Doyon wants, I think this is what Doyon wants.  All but few Doyon villages there.  Bering Straits from Calista.  Bristol Bay, Aleutian district.  Kenai Borough, Matsu has population for five seats, Kenai for three.  This gives them their 3 and 5.  Doesn't carve out Nanwalke and Seldovia.  Does create one aspect Board might want to look at.  Kenai is self contained, leaf from Kodiak to Cordova - about 145 miles running from east of tule island to Johnstone Bay on Montague, but same magnitude with interim plan, District 9 from Nunavak Island to ??? also about 139 miles,  Same order of magnitude.  If Board is uncomfortable, I've identified three unoccupied islands, that would violate geography of Kenai Borough would still keep population of Kenai in three boroughs.  Takes Valdez ??? becomes part of the highway district.  Begich in earlier testimony last week explained justification.  Includes most of Ahtna district.  SE forms district out of Ketchikan and Wrangle.  Sitka and Petersburg. . .. . [missed this.]
Fairbanks - wither district that , based primarily, two city districts combine for senate district, takes West population Ester and U and forms district there, and then north of city, then another based on North Pole.  Maintains a Doyon district out Chena Hot Springs Road, more rural areas of Borough.  Eilson.  Rational - Tom argued in his presentation - less connected with FB area, potential, that population could be moved to Anchorage if fighter right developed and would strengthen Doyon villages. 
I think that covers it.  It is 9.6% deviation.  Based on existing law.  Talk about more mathematical precision.  Now the standard is 10% outside of urban Boroughs.  Once inside Borough boundaries no longer dealing with SEI.  In rest of the state, SC acknowledged a lot of SEI factors need to be adjusted for. 
White:  You said 5.6
McKinnon -5.6 is Bethel, +4 is Homer based.
White:  How many people out of FB put in . . .
McKinnon:   half the people, about 8500.  Valdez about ???
White:  All the rural districts underpopulated?
McKinnon:  yes.  Bush districts -4.6 about -5  - allows you to maintain regional corporations
White:  Thank you very much.

Lets take a ten minute break before we go to work session.  You can ask questions of presenters, then we'll be back about 1:10. 

Finished here before working session. 

6.Board work session
7.Executive Session on litigation strategies (if Necessary)
8.Adjourn

Trying to Understand Problems I See At The Alaska Redistricting Board

This post is going to look at problems I see with the Alaska Redistricting Board.  This is meant to be descriptive more than judgmental, though some would point out that the word 'problem' itself is judgmental.    I’m reasonably certain about the actions I am reporting on, but I’m much less certain about the reasons.   This was going to be a series of posts so I wouldn’t overwhelm readers.  Or myself.  But while separating them makes it easier to talk about them, they really are all tangled together. 

Key problems I see:
  1. Public Access problems
    1. The Board doesn't say much about what it's doing and why
    2. The website - I’ll cover that in its own section, but basically things get moved, disappear, return, show up in different places, critical things don’t get posted,
    3. The state public notice website - the Board's official public notice, the only one that make sure they keep up to date, is the state's public notice website.  This is site that most people have never heard of, unless they are regularly looking to get contracts with the state.  It's not a place that most people check out regularly, or even know exists. It's much more user friendly now than when the Board started, but if you google "Alaska Redistricting Board"  it doesn't show up in the first ten pages of results (I stopped there.)
    4. One way on-the-record communication with public - The Board does not answer questions from the public on the record.  Board meetings have no public participation.  At public hearings the public has three minutes to say something.  The Board can ask questions,  Other than that,  it’s all one-way communication and no conversation.  People can ask the Board members questions during breaks, but anything that challenges what the Board is doing tends to be met with resistance.  Thus we don't know much about what the board is doing or why.
      1. It's hard keeping track of what the board is doing
      2. It's harder to understanding the motivation of the Board
      3. It's hard understanding what the differences are between all the plans
    5. When I asked a Board member about the disappearance of the court documents from the website, I was told that people should be able to go to the court websites and get them on their own.  The Board didn't need to do all that for the public.
      I know the Board likes to say they are by far the most accessible redistricting board in Alaska history.  And I've said before, that's not a high standard.  Besides, technology has changed radically in the last ten years so they should be the most accessible.  But I do appreciate the access I've been able to have via the Legislative Information Office and via telephone when the either the Board or I am not in Anchorage.

  2. Changing rules about when plans are due, and lack of rules for approving them, etc.
    1. The Board created seven plans.  Why?  Why not three or ten?  There was no public discussion of the purpose of the options or criteria for deciding which ones to keep or not keep.  They simply approved them all.     
    2. The Board had a deadline of noon, June 21 for third-party plans.  They then voted to approve all three state plans plus one Southeast plan.  There was no discussion of criteria for approving plans. 
    3. The Board then accepted more third party plans and posted them the day before the first public hearing.  There was no explanation of why they accepted plans after the deadline.  There hadn't been another meeting for them to change the rules or to accept more plans after the deadline.  It just happened. 
    4. When the Board added new and amended third-party plans after the deadline, it was problematic because others might not have submitted a plan or made changes because they thought that a deadline was a deadline.  At the very least the other group to submit a plan should have been notified that adjustments could still be made.  So I contacted Gazewood & Weiner, who had also submitted a third-party plan but not an amended one.  I talked to Michael Wallerie.  I wanted to know:
      1. If the Board had notified them that the deadline had been extended  [he said no]
      2. If the Board had sent the amended and new plans to them [he said no, but Calista had sent them their plans, but AFFER did not]
  3. The sheer number of different plans plus the Board's lack of information about each of their plans means the public has lots of data, but very little information.  The public hearing had seventeen plans for the public to read.  But there was no information about how the Board plans differed from each other or why. (This overlaps a lot with number 5 below.)
  4. Problems with the Board’s websiteLet me preface by saying I've gotten a lot of important information from the Board's website. 
    1. Keeping the website current has always been something of a problem.  But toward the end of the first round of creating plans, the website had begun to have useful information and much of it was fairly timely.  
      1. New maps got put up quickly.  
      2. There was a link with all the documents filed with the Courts.  
      3. But it took a little longer than forever for meeting transcripts to get posted. When the last executive director left, the website went to sleep.
    2. Information has disappeared, been moved, reappeared, and otherwise been hard to find
      1. The list of court documents - a very useful feature - disappeared.  I think.  I recently found it again.  But I had complained about it to three different Board people and none told me it was still there.  There's now even a litigation document link on the main page, but it says 'updated 6/28/12'.
      2. Old maps from the prior round disappeared - though links I had to them from this blog continued to work.  And recently I found the Amended Proclamation Plan in a new location.  
      3. Board meetings, when they were announced on the website, were usually on the main page.  Recently I looked for a meeting announcement and couldn't find it.  Later I found they were on the calendar - not a bad place, except the calendar hadn't ever been used before. 
      4. The best way to keep track of what's happening with the Board is through their subscription email.  That link is almost on the bottom of the right column on the main page. 
      5. The website problems were mentioned in one of the recent Court orders and I was told that the Board had contracted with a website managing company to keep the site up-to-date.  This is positive, but they really need someone who understands the Board's process and what the public needs to direct how the website is used.  Making a user friendly website isn't easy.  The Board has different information scattered all over the place in different formats.  There is no one person any more who knows the process who is also managing the site.
         
  5. Lack of discussion at Board meetings about their different maps, how they were different, why they had those differences, etc.
    1. Third parties were asked to present their plans at the public hearings.  They were given 30 minutes to do this.  They tended to explain the factors that were important in creating their maps - such as keeping  the deviations low or respecting ANCSA boundaries - then they talked about why they made decisions to things the way they did.  They’d say, for example, we looked at splitting Matsu to connect with Anchorage here,  or we used the east side of Fairbanks for the rural district because the military are much more transient than the people on the east side and they don’t vote nearly as much.  
    2. The Board has been doing this work for two years now and they need the Third party map makers to explain their maps to them. 
    3. The Board had seven plans but they did not explain any of their plans to the public.  One person, Lois Epstein, an engineer who works with GIS, asked a couple of the Board members, during a break in the testimony, to explain the logic of their plan.  PeggyAnn McConnochie, one of the more technically savvy members of the board said they followed the Constitutional criteria.  Asked if she could be more specific, she told her it was too complicated.  The tone of McConnochie’s answer said, “Why are you asking me this?  This is an unreasonable request.”  I talked to Epstein right after that and tried to find out more of what she was after.  Basically, she wanted to know what criteria they programmed into the computer - was keeping boroughs intact the key one?  Or low deviation?  Or what?  I told her the ones I understood - equal population in each district, yes, trying to keep boroughs intact, compactness, contiguity, etc.  But as we discussed this I realized that covering this process so long had lowered my expectations.  That yes, the public was just as entitled, probably more so, to an explanation of each of the Board’s plans as the Board was to explanations of the third party plans.  I say lowered expectations because two years ago, I suggested on this blog that the Board needed to give the public more information about each plan so that the public would understand them enough to actually make comments that mattered.
    4. This is not to say that a few organizations with the interest and resources to pay experts to follow this process closely, haven't been studying these things closely.

      In fact, the first time we all went through this process, the Board, at their meetings, did talk about each of the plans and why they were done the way they were done.  But that didn’t happen this time.  There was no public discussion of the plans.  They only voted to accept them all.
       
  6. No discussion at Board meetings about what Section 2 of the VRA requires of them.  The Board has been holding off action in hopes that the Supreme Court would rule that Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act would no longer be in force, on the grounds that they would then only need to meet the Alaska Constitutional requirements.  
    Section 4 of the Voting Rights Act was invalidated by the Supreme Court recently.  Section 4 was the formula for determining which states and localities needed pre-clearance as required in Section 5 of the VRA.  Since the criteria are no longer in effect, Alaska and the other states that had been required by Section 5 to get pre-clearance no longer need to.
    However, Section 2 is still in force.  The Board doesn't need pre-clearance, but it does need to comply with Section 2.  If they don't, they can be challenged by the Department of Justice or by Alaskans in court.  Such a challenge could cause long delays.
    The differences between the standards for Section 5 and Section 2 are not completely clear.  I recently wrote in a post on this that it appeared that Section 2 required proving intent while Section 5 only required proving a discriminatory effect.  In the public testimony, Natalie Landreth of the Native American Rights Fund "pointed out to the Board that though Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act is not in force now, Section 2 is.  And contrary to some media reports Section 2 does not require intent.  It too is evaluated on impact on protected groups."  Board attorney Michael White agreed with her.
    But there's been no public discussion of this by the Board.  They've simply concluded they just need to meet the state Constitutional requirements and all will be well.  Something seems to be missing.
     
  7. Disruption of the Voting Process

    Redistricting is necessary, because maintaining the one-person one-vote principle requires some adjustment as population changes.  The US Constitution recognized this and requires states to adjust every ten years.
    But this adjustment is disruptive.  New districts require citizens to learn new borders, often new representatives, and new polling places.  Generally redistricting boards should minimize these disruptions while they balance the other criteria such as one-person one-vote, compact and contiguous districts, etc. 

    Another disruption when districts are changed too much is that Alaska state senators, normally elected to a four year term, can be truncated.  That means their term is shortened and they must go up for election at the next election after redistricting.  19 of the 20 Alaska Senators had to run for election in 2012.  That was the end of four years for some.  But for others, it meant they had to run for reelection after only two years.  And then the Board determined which new Senate districts would have two year terms and which four year (so that terms stayed staggered.)  So some Senators could have been required to run for office three times in  in six years (2008, 2010, and 2012.)  I haven't looked to see if there are actually any senators who came out this way.  But if there are, with new redistricting, it's conceivable that a senator would now have to run again in 2014 AND 2016 if the Board doesn't pay attention to this. 
    For most states, this happens only once every ten years.  But because the Board failed to create an acceptable plan for 2012, they are making another plan now.  For the second election in a row, Alaskans will be confronted with new districts, and in some cases new representatives.  And State Senators again face truncation and having their terms set for only two years. 
    This has not been discussed by the Board, but it seems to me that when the Board creates the new plan, they should be working hard to minimize such disruptions by keeping the new maps, when possible, as similar to the old ones as possible to avoid these disruptions for voters that degrade the quality of their representation in Juneau.  And that degrade the intent that Senators have a longer term view because they get elected every four years instead of two. 
    It's important for voters to know who their representatives are, to establish relationships with them, and to know their district and polling place.  The quality of representation is better this way. As I recall this issue was discussed by the Supreme Court when the Board's case was before them.
    This hasn't been mentioned at all as the Board reviews plans this time round. 


Why are these things happening? 

I can’t tell you exactly because I don’t have access to enough information about what the Board members are thinking and what they say to one to another when others aren’t listening. [I'm not charging any hidden conspiracy here.  Board members - if only two are present - can talk to each other about these things.  If I were on the Board, I'm sure I would.]  So I don’t know for sure how decisions got made or didn’t get made.   But I can speculate and here are some possibilities:
  1. It’s lack of resources
  2. It’s incompetence
  3. It’s the inherent conflicts in the task 
  4. It’s intentional
  5. It’s Group Think
  6. It’s that Board members’ models of their job and their obligations are totally different from mine
I think that there are different reasons for different problems and that in each case it isn’t simply one or the other, but some combination of them.  And some problems exacerbate others.  For instance, not hiring an executive director means they don’t have the human resources necessary to keep the website up to date.  I think the board’s views of what public participation means also makes the website a lower priority for them than for me.

I'll go through these issues in another post. There is already way too much for people to chew on,